Do you know the mood within the compound?
Well, our intel is saying
that people are starting to question their loyalty to Koresh.
How many people are still inside?
We estimate 130.
Is there any concern for the possibility of a mass suicide?
All possibilities are a concern.
Have you been talking to the White House about what's going on?
Yes. They are apprised of the situation.
Sir, what do think it will take for them to come out?
Apparently, a sign from God.
Synced & corrected by kinglouisxx www.addic7ed.com
I don't understand, Gary.
- Why did you shut our power off? - Look, you gotta understand.
The negotiators do not get 100% of the input, okay?
The tactical side, they have a say in it, as well.
Our position is moving forward.
I thought we made a lot of progress yesterday
delivering you that milk with Sheriff Harwell.
Me, too. Which is why I'm confused.
I mean, you send in milk for the kids, then turn off the power
so it goes bad. I mean, where's the sense in that?
My bosses have it in their minds
that this might become another Jonestown.
Another Jonestown? Wait a second.
Do you think that we are going to kill ourselves?
Well, frankly, Steve, I don't know what you're thinking.
Gary, do you honestly believe that I would spend
this much time on the phone with you if that was our plan?
We're trying to find a solution.
A solution that will take us back to the life we had
before you came in here and ruined it.
I am, too.
Now, what I'd really like to do
is take advantage of the good stuff
that happened yesterday and keep moving forward.
- Do you think we can do that? - Look. What I want you to do
is tell your bosses we are not going to kill ourselves.
That is not what we're about.
I will.
Is David there? I'd like to talk to him.
David's not gonna talk to you again
until you turn our electricity back on.
Lack of electricity makes them less comfortable
and more willing to compromise.
Under normal circumstances, yes.
But these people, they already know
how to live with nothing.
All you're doing is pissing 'em off.
- Mitch feels differently. - You know, sir,
with you talking to Mitch and I separately,
it feels like we're operating at cross purposes here.
It's been nine days.
How much longer do I let this go on?
As long as it takes.
Do you know what this is costing taxpayers?
God damn it, I'm not worried about taxpayers right now.
Gary, we need to bring this to a resolution.
Look...
Koresh has been bullied his entire life.
Here we go.
The more you let HRT do what they did last night,
the more he's gonna dig in.
He's let people out.
That shows he's willing to work with us.
But we've gotta meet that with positive reinforcement,
not punishment.
You wanna train a dog to fetch your newspaper?
Do you kick him in the balls
every time he brings it back to ya?
No.
I'm sorry, Tony.
We both want the same thing. You know that, right?
But in order to get it, we gotta turn the power back on!
- Morning. - Morning.
Your mom... it's sweet what she did.
Yeah, it was kind of embarrassing.
I wish my mom did something like that.
- Yeah, what happened to her? - She left.
Right after I joined the House of David.
She didn't like how that happened.
What... what's that like?
Being married to David?
It's...
it's like...
being married to the most special person in the world.
But not being special yourself.
You're special to me.
You're special to me, too.
David wants you to try and get that generator working.
That thing hasn't worked forever.
I know, but you know, do what you...
Hey! I take that back.
Hey, Thibs, will you turn that up for me?
Still no sign of surrender. Robert...
See what they're saying about us now.
...joins us now live with the latest. Robert?
We've just learned that the Branch Davidians who left Mt. Carmel
have been arrested.
Also, a judge has declared those remaining inside
to be unfit parents.
Child Services has been brought in
to handle the situation as it unfolds.
How dare you call us "unfit parents"?
When was the last time you saw your kids, Gary?
I see mine every day.
The judge doesn't know you or your people, David.
Which is why you need to come out and tell your side of things.
Oh, I'd love to tell my side of things, Gary,
but you won't let us speak to the press.
Every time I turn that TV on,
all I see is "David Koresh, the fanatic.
David Koresh, the antagonist."
Well, from what I can see,
there's an awful lot of sympathy for you
and a lot of anger towards the ATF
in all parts of the country.
It's in your interest to come out now,
and not have that sentiment turn.
You know, you sure like putting all the pressure on us to come out,
when what you should be doing is just back off.
Let time take its toll.
Do you understand?
It's not our desire to die in here, Gary.
I understand,
and I've been trying to buy time with my bosses,
- but it's very difficult... - Buy time for what?
Before you come in here full force?
No. Buy the time...
you need, you know,
to pray and talk to your God.
Tell me, Gary...
who's your God?
You do believe in God, don't ya?
I don't know what I believe.
Well, how do you think all this started, Gary?
Do you think i-it's all just random?
It's all one big coincidence?
That a proton collided with a neutron
and that's how it all got started?
Well, who created that proton, Gary? Who created that neutron?
How did the universe get this possibility?
The kids, David... let's talk about sending more of 'em out.
Gary, I know.
I know you don't like talking about religion.
But religion is all I am.
- Right, but the kids are what... - Listen to me!
Listen. Listen carefully. These kids in here are my children,
and they ain't coming out!
Especially to someone who doesn't even believe in God.
That's hard.
Well, everything's hard until you practice it, right?
Trust me.
By your birthday, I'm gonna have you playing like John Bonham.
Are you gonna leave us, Thibodeau?
Let's try again.
Do these kids seem abused to you?
- No, they sure don't. - Yeah.
I've seen abused kids. They don't act like this.
These children are loved.
Their parents must be suffering to be without 'em.
But Koresh won't send out any more kids.
We need to start working on the parents.
Okay. How do we do that?
Go get the camera.
What?
- Hello. - You lied to me.
- Who's this? - Kathy Schroeder.
I saw that tape you sent.
I gave my children over to you and you lied to me!
Get Gary!
Uh, I'm sorry, Kathy. You have me at a bit of a disadvantage.
I'm not sure what we're talking about here.
Danny! I mean, where are his brothers?
They're supposed to be together!
Danny is only three and he's all alone!
I don't know why your sons would be separated.
Wait.
The father took them. Now, why didn't he take Danny?
Well, Danny's not his.
He belongs to Mike. You know, my second husband...
who you killed?
Oh.
I need you to get Danny to his brothers.
Okay? They'll look after him. I need you to make Dale understand.
Kathy, your first husband has no legal right to Danny.
Well, nobody told me that! You...
God, you guys are like...! I mean, first you killed Mike,
and now Danny's just all alone!
This is not right.
- This is not right. - Kathy...
I'm so sorry. I can only imagine what you're going through.
But sometimes when it comes to children,
it's necessary to set aside what we need
for their needs.
And right now...
you know what Danny needs most...
is a hug from his mommy.
Shh...
God...
Okay.
I'm coming out.
I'm sorry.
The ATF believe these guys
were converting semiautomatic weapons into automatics.
Now, in Texas, that's illegal. Unless...
you purchase a $25 permit, in which case, it's fine.
This is Ron Engelman, reminding you to pay your parking tickets,
because the ATF is in town and they're hunting Americans.
I noticed you've been sleeping in your car the last few nights.
Yeah, well, there's a lot of press in town.
I can't get a room at a decent rate.
I got a room.
With two beds in it, if you like.
Thank you, but I... got myself a pillow
and my seat folds all the way back.
- So, I'm good. - Okay. Look.
I know you blame me for everything that's happened.
And I'll be the first to admit I was not the best mother.
I had David when I was 14.
It's no excuse, but what 14-year-old knows how to raise a child?
We don't have the luxury to not like one another.
We both want the same thing.
We both want our boys to come out of there.
Okay. Okay.
I had my son when I was 16.
I didn't have it figured out either.
My offer stands if you change your mind.
It's room 47. Okay?
Serenity mentioned it's her birthday next week.
You planning anything?
It's not really an appropriate time to celebrate.
That's not how it works. Can't not have a party on your birthday.
Everyone's spirit's down.
All the more reason to lift it up.
I can help you plan something...
Thanks, Thibs, but not now, okay?
I'm sorry. Just not now.
Uh...
Kathy, put your heart to wisdom.
Think this through.
These are the people that murdered your husband.
I know.
It... it's not an easy decision,
but Danny needs me.
Well, if your desire is stronger than your loyalty to God,
then we have our answer, don't we?
David...
I know God is here. I know that.
- It's... it's all coming true... - If you're gonna go, go.
If you're looking for my blessing, you ain't getting it.
Go.
Go on.
- Take Brad with you. - Me?
I heard you were drinking. Is that the truth?
We are all one body here.
And for that body to work properly, we all need to be in harmony.
If one finger isn't working,
or if someone decides to go out on their own...
- David... - then we're all out of harmony.
This is God's test, and you failed miserably.
- Calm down. - Don't tell me to calm down.
I'm protecting us.
You're done here.
Steve, let 'em out.
Kathy...
Sir, do you copy?
[SNIPER OVER RADIO I have two targets in my view. Over.
Whoa, whoa, whoa! Everyone! Just calm down!
Keep your hands in the air and get on the ground, now!
I was right there.
- I tried to stop it. - I know you did.
God's not speaking to me anymore.
I have no idea what I'm gonna do.
You know, you always say
"To trust God in the light's easy, but...
to trust Him in the dark, that's faith."
- What's happening? - I don't know?
Everything you tell me is a lie, Gary.
No, Everything I tell you is not a lie.
I'm not the one who drove that vehicle onto your property, David.
I don't wanna hear it. We aren't afraid of the government.
Big Brother wants to come in here and fight,
we will fight back.
I think we've proven that before.
And as long as our flag is still flying, I'm gonna defend it.
As an American citizen,
anyone that steps on my property,
anyone that destroys my property, is gonna get their ass whupped.
Look, I would feel exactly the same way if I was in your position.
But, the thing is, these guys are frustrated, too.
And they don't wanna be here any more than you want them here.
But try as I might, I cannot get them to understand
somebody waiting for a sign from God.
It's just not part of their worldview.
I get that, Gary.
But we can get through this if we work together, okay?
Now I want you to sit tight. I'm gonna go talk to my bosses
and try and get those tanks off your property.
Okay?
Okay. All right.
Do you realize I'm getting all my information
about what we're doing from the Branch Davidians?
Maybe you should move in with them.
God damn it!
Why did you send that damn tank in there?
Because when I went to pick up those people,
I noticed several vantage points
where they could hide and fire on our agents.
I had to mitigate their strategic advantage.
You didn't try to "mitigate their strategic advantage."
You're trying to irritate them into coming out!
It's not a winning strategy!
What's not a winning strategy is "waiting for a sign from God."
- Sir, I... - No.
I'm tired of buying you time. You need to tell them to come out.
It's been 17 days, Gary.
- I've been pushing 'em. - Not hard enough.
I'm under an awful lot of pressure to get them out.
I have the attorney general and every politician in Washington
breathing down my neck!
I want them outta there by tomorrow morning!
I can't give 'em a deadline. I've tried that before.
It doesn't work. Now, time is on our side...
Time is not on our side. Now, give them the deadline. Now!
No.
I won't do that.
Get Koresh on the phone.
Whoa, Tony. What are you doing?
Hey...
Hello?
- David? - Yes?
This is Tony Prince, Special Agent in Charge for the FBI.
If you don't come out of there by morning...
certain actions will be taken against you and your people.
That's not a threat, it's a promise.
This is the CBS Evening News.
Good evening, Dan Rather reporting.
That heavily-armed cult in central Texas
is showing no signs of surrender.
Indeed, it shows all signs of defiance.
Vicki Mabrey is on the scene covering for us near Waco, Texas.
The standoff outside the Branch Davidian compound
has become a psychological power struggle
between federal agents and cult leader David Koresh.
The FBI is restocking its own arsenal,
borrowing Abrams tanks from the defense department.
Now, sources tell CBS News
that federal agents don't plan to let this go on indefinitely.
Their frustration level is very high
and if negotiations are not more fruitful,
they may take action by this weekend.
I think we should probably just prepare everyone for another attack.
We don't know they're going to do that.
Yeah, but we don't know that they're not.
Steve, what do you think that they are gonna do?
We can just leave.
The minute we walk out those doors, we're admitting guilt.
I don't know, guilt versus death. Is there a decision?
Yeah. Spending the rest of your life in jail,
or death. Some decision.
This is why we need a lawyer.
- No offense, Wayne. - None taken.
Well, they barely gave us milk.
Do you think they're gonna give us a lawyer?
No, Judy's right. The chances of that are as good as them...
Hey, David.
What's going on?
- We're just talking. - About...?
- About our options. - Options?
- Mm-hmm. - Steven...
you of all people know there's only one option.
Wayne...
you wanna go out there, be with your family?
Or do you wanna feel the hand of God?
You are my family, David.
Judy, do you wanna stay or do you wanna leave?
I don't wanna leave without you.
Thibodeau?
Go on. Take the easy way out.
- I... - David.
You owe it to us to tell us what you're thinking.
No. I owe you nothing.
You are not the only one that's suffering here.
- Don't you forget that. - Don't forget... why we're here.
This is our "withering."
Y'all wanna miss out on the miracle?
Be my guest.
Get outta my chapel.
Sir, I apologize for my outburst, but I'd...
I'd really appreciate if you'd reconsider your ultimatum.
Gary, please sit down.
How many kids do you have?
- Three. - I have two myself.
Your wife, uh... she understands the job?
Well, she was a secretary in the Bureau when we met, so she gets it.
Oh.
My wife, she...
she pretends to get it. But she doesn't.
- Where did you grow up? - Atlantic Beach, Florida.
Now, uh, sir, I'd really like to...
What?
Move this conversation along?
What if I just wanna sit here and talk?
For hours?
What if we just talked and talked, but then,
after all that, I decided
not to give you the response you came in here looking for?
That would be frustrating, wouldn't it?
Sir, one of the main principles I try to teach my students
who wanna be negotiators is to never, ever start a clock
because it gives the person on the other end
the opportunity to make the wrong decision.
We're not in a classroom here, Gary.
And the principles that you apply
to hypothetical situations, well...
they don't always work.
We're at an impasse here.
And your "trickle-flow-gush" theory... albeit a good one...
well... that doesn't seem to be working either.
So, what's your plan, then?
It's time to apply pressure.
Decker wants to start implementing psy-ops to get them out.
You wanna psychologically torture them?
It's not torture.
It's a safe way to push them.
This is not an FBI-sanctioned strategy.
You do understand that, right?
Don't think I haven't thought this through.
I'm in a difficult position here, Gary.
All right, so, uh, you know...
just for shits and giggles, let me get this straight.
You wanna take a guy that we're fairly certain
is unstable to begin with...
and you're gonna attempt to drive him crazy
with psychological pressure,
in hopes that somehow
that will suddenly make him more reasonable?
You've been requesting an open flow of communication
since you got here.
I just gave it to ya.
My commander, David, I spoke to him.
He's not gonna back down on this ultimatum.
Yeah, well, we're not backing down either, Gary.
David, I'm gonna try something here.
I wanna talk to ya
not like "Gary, the FBI agent," but...
like I was your friend.
And I want you to listen to what I'm gonna say.
As if a friend was saying it to you.
Come out.
Just come out before it gets any worse.
That's my friendly advice.
I appreciate that, Gary.
And I want this to be over just as much as you do.
You think I like being in this place like this?
I don't. It's awful.
You have no idea what I'd give to have a hot shower right now.
It can be over, David.
You have the ability to make it be over.
I'm trying.
I'm trying to connect with God.
And I'm not just giving you the runaround either, Gary.
I know.
Well, I just want you to know, whatever happens from here on out...
I'm trying, too.
I know you are.
I know.
Okay, yeah.
All right. It's almost bedtime.
But before you go, I have something for you.
What is it?
Happy birthday.
Go ahead, make a wish, and blow it out.
What's going on here?
Uh, we're just having a little party.
Because it's my birthday.
I know it is.
It's time to go to bed, all right?
Wait. She has to open her present first.
Wow. It's so pretty.
- What is it? - It's a drum key.
If you're gonna be a rock star someday,
gotta know how to tune a drum, right?
- Hmm. - You like it?
- Yeah. - What do you say?
- Thank you, Thibodeau. - Aw, you're welcome.
What's happening?
- Light 'em up, boys. - Go!
It's okay. It's okay.
It's okay.
No, no, I'm sorry. Please don't put words in my mouth.
The FBI has no comment at this time. Next question.
Is there a consideration to use psychological warfare?
Have you discussed it at all?
I don't even know what psychological warfare is.
Well, it was reported that you're playing loud music
and shining bright lights on the compound all night
to try to agitate the group.
Yeah, I cannot discuss tactics of that sort, but I'd say
there's minimal chance that we would get up to that sort of activity.
When are you gonna allow the parents
to intervene and talk to our children?
Well, that is not something we're comfortable doing at the moment.
Why? Why? How can it hurt for our voices to get in there?
- We know our children. - Yes, go ahead.
We should be speaking to our children.
- Ma'am, there's a protocol... - Screw your protocol!
I want to talk to my son!
- Ma'am... - Everybody here,
all of these families here,
we don't wanna just stand around...
- Is there security? - and just figure out
that we've waited too long? I don't want...
- a dead son on my hands! - Security, please!
Let me talk to my son! Let us talk to our children!
I think that's going to do it for today. Thank you.
I filled a bunch of glasses.
I figured I'd bring one over for Serenity.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
How you guys doing?
It's freezing.
I have an extra blanket. I'll run and grab it.
Wait, Thibs.
You're the best.
Be right back.
Wayne?
Get that generator working yet?
Looks like it's gonna be another cold one tonight.
I've taken it apart and put it back together twice.
I still can't figure out what's wrong with it.
Do you mind if I have a look?
I'll take all the help I can get.
Come on in.
How you doing?
Good.
I was just checking in on you, see if you're okay.
What's wrong?
Um...
I don't wanna die in here, David.
I know I might.
And-and maybe that's God's will, but...
I don't want to.
I wish I had three more years with you.
Three more years to teach you the message.
Who's to say you won't?
The way things are going, I think it's clear.
We're going home.
One way or another, Thibs.
Uh...
Michelle and Serenity...
What about 'em?
If I decide to go...
will you let them leave with me?
Hm.
Your mother.
She sure struck a nerve with you, didn't she?
- Yeah. - Yeah.
They have a way of doing that.
And it would pain me,
but I would not hold it against you if you wanted to go join her.
But Michelle?
And Serenity?
That is my wife... and my daughter.
They are mine... to protect.
Not yours.
You understand?
Mm-hmm.
Sources near the scene are reporting
that the FBI's main concern right now is a mass suicide.
Authorities feel Koresh has become unstable in the last few days
and they worry about what he might do.
A lightning storm...
I ran outta money for gas. My car is freezing.
- May I come in? - Yes. Please.
All right, Thibs.
I'm ready when you are.
Hi, Mom. It's me.
I saw you on the news the other night.
I know this is hard on you. I'm sorry.
I just want you to know I'm okay.
I'm not being held against my will.
I can come out whenever I want. But...
this is something I... I thought about a lot, and...
I need to see this through.
'Cause people here...
they're counting on me.
I can't leave them behind, so...
I hope you understand.
I really love you, Mom.
I hope...
hope to see you soon.
- Hey, help me hang this blanket. - Yeah.
Can you get that side?
Hang this up.
What's it gonna take to get you to start seeing them as people?
I see 'em as people.
Just not the kind I ever wanna be around again.
Hm.
Have you noticed... that not a single person has come out
since you started screwing around with them? What does that tell ya?
I don't know.
That they're a bunch of stubborn sons of bitches?
History's not gonna be on your side with this one, Mitch.
I'll take the other side of that bet.
Just stand down, okay? For a few days.
Turn the power back on. And give them...
a moment to start thinking straight again.
That's not my call. Talk to Prince.
Prince isn't listening to me anymore, Mitch.
He's listening to you.
Five thousand to one.
Those are the odds against us.
Five thousand people to every one officer of the law.
You know how we keep order with those odds?
Because they believe we're more powerful than we are.
We project strength.
And the people believe in that strength.
So when we sit outside a place like this,
for weeks on end,
waiting for them to tire...
we look weak in front of the rest of the whole world.
And every angry asshole with a bomb kit starts getting ideas.
This is more than a situation now, Gary.
This is a symbol.
Are we the kind of agency that coddles cop killers?
Or are we the goddamn FBI?
Come on.
Whoo!
Yeah!
You did it!
I knew you would! Great job!
How much gas do we have in there?
10 minutes, tops.
I know what I wanna do with it.
Oh, my God.
Hello?
- Hi, sis. - Oh, my God, Steve!
Where are you? Did you get out of there?
No, I'm still inside.
I found a phone. And...
- Steve? - You know what? I...
Look, Sue, I don't have a lot of time.
This thing's beeping at me, but... listen.
I... there's been a lot of talk on the news
and, um, with the FBI, about us committing suicide in here.
And I just want you to know, no matter what they tell you,
that we would never kill ourselves.
And so,
if we somehow... I don't know... if we wind up dead, or...
and... and that's what they're telling people around the world,
then I just want you to know that it's a lie.
Okay?
Sue...?
Can you hear what I'm...
What is that?
What's that sound?
Hey, turn off the speakers.
- I thought we cut the power off. - We did.
? I've been in a cave For 40 days ?
? Only a spark To light my way ?
? I want to give out ?
? I want to give in ?
? This is our crime ?
? This is our sin ?
? Oh, I still believe! ?
If we were to go in...
? But I still believe... ?
What would that look like?
I could have a plan on your desk by morning.
- ? Through the heartache... ? - Get it to me.
? Through the waiting, Through the years ?
? For people like us ?
? In places like this ?
? We need all the hope That we can get ?
? Oh, I still believe! ?
Synced & corrected by kinglouisxx www.addic7ed.com