It's been four hours since David Koresh and his followers
have refused to release themselves to the FBI
following a bloody shootout with ATF.
Now, details are scarce, but the question
everyone seems to be asking, "Just when will they come out?"
The federal agents came under heavy and sustained fire
as they approached a ranch owned by...
They're making us look like monsters.
Calling us child abusers.
Everyone's in the chapel wondering why we're not going out.
I need you to talk to 'em.
...believed to have been collected
by Branch Davidian cult members.
Negotiations failed, Noesner. They reneged on their deal.
Let me handle this. I can have the building cleared by lunch.
Look. This isn't the first time in the history of negotiations
that someone reneged on a deal, okay?
Our primary objective has to be getting those kids out safely.
Clearing the building comes second.
They're screwing with us.
Now's the time to apply more pressure.
No, no, no. Let's not mistake getting even for getting what we want.
"Trickle-flow-gush." That's my next strategy.
If I can get a few people to trickle out,
more will follow as it starts to flow
and once Koresh sees enough people leave,
he won't be the last in line.
It would undermine his authority.
He'll lead the rest of them out himself,
and the whole thing will be over.
I just need a little time.
Okay.
But...
a little show of force might help get their attention.
Okay.
Over the years...
you've looked to me to be your leader.
To guide you on this journey.
But I'm no leader.
I'm a follower. Just like you.
God has instructed me to stay here.
And wait for His sign before I go out there.
But I can't ask you to do the same.
And whoever wants to leave, you're free to go.
But those of thinking of going,
I want you to ask yourself...
why did you sacrifice all the comforts you had
to come here?
Know it or not, you came here to be tested.
And this is a test.
This is our withering.
Our time to prove through suffering...
that we are worthy of the miracle that's to come.
The kingdom of heaven is coming.
And those of us that pass this test
will be the worthy.
And those of us that fail this test...
well... you're gonna have to answer to God.
And I can't...
David!
Synced & corrected by kinglouisxx www.addic7ed.com
You're burning up.
Uh, I'll get him some water.
Which one's my dad?
Hey. You probably shouldn't be in here.
You know that old myrtle tree outside?
- The one out front? - Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
My dad and I planted it when I was five.
He loved that old tree.
He always wanted to be buried next to it.
And now, look.
Instead, he's getting buried with buckets and shovels like...
- like a piece of garbage. - Hey.
Hey.
Get back. Get back.
You promised to stay off our land.
Well, David made a promise, too.
He gave us his word, after his message was played, he'd come out.
He didn't come out. He... he broke his promise.
Could you put him on the phone?
No. He doesn't want to talk to you right now.
Look, Steve, my bosses are frustrated.
They don't understand why you didn't come out.
Look, I'm embarrassed about that, on a personal level.
We were gonna come out, but...
God told David that we needed to wait.
- God told him? - Yeah, just like you guys
follow a higher authority, we do too.
Okay. So, what now?
So, now, we wait for a sign from God to tell us to come out.
Look...
I know this all probably sounds funny to you.
But...
what if there is a higher power than you or I, Gary?
And that higher power, He speaks to David?
If there is a God in this universe,
and you've got the laws of man and the laws of God,
and that God that has led David his entire life
says to him, "Wait."
I mean, what is he supposed to do?
Well, I have to be honest with you, Steve.
I don't know how my bosses are gonna respond
when I tell them we're waiting for a sign from God.
You know, what I could really use is a sign of good faith.
If David could send some of the people out.
What, do you think we're hostages here?
No one is a hostage here, Gary.
Everyone is free to come and go as they please.
Then why isn't anyone coming out?
Because, right now, everyone feels safer in here
than they do out there with you.
And because once you get into this building,
you're going to be able to mess with
the evidence in any way that you want.
And you can make up any story that you want,
but if this building stands,
and the reporters and the press get to see the evidence,
then it is going to be clearly shown what happened here,
what these men... what your men came in here to do.
- You want us to come out? - David, listen. You've gotta...
Then why are you bringing these tanks in here?
Do you know what that tells me?
That this is war.
Why are you sending all these people in here, guns a-blazing?
For war, Gary.
And now, these tanks?
And these guys surrounding us?
You say you want us to come out,
but it sure doesn't look like that to us.
David, I...
"Personal level."
"On a personal level."
What'd we just learn from this conversation?
That they'll do whatever this Koresh guy tells 'em.
No, we already knew that.
But Steve said that he was embarrassed
about that "on a personal level."
He's separating himself from Koresh.
- Saying he doesn't agree. - Huh.
What can you tell me about this Steve Schneider?
Uh, well, he was a professor of theology at the University of Hawaii.
- Uh-huh. - He's originally from Wisconsin.
He and his wife joined the group six years ago.
He's their star recruiter.
The group has nearly doubled since he joined.
- Really? - Our informant says
that he's the glue that keeps this place together.
And get this.
His wife, Judy,
recently had a baby with Koresh.
That can't be good for the relationship.
Yeah.
If Steve brought most of these people in,
I would guess he feels responsible for their well-being.
Right? Let's focus all our attention on him.
If we can break Steve away, this whole thing ends.
David...?
Can you hear me?
I'd like to send some people out.
Jaydean's kids are without a mother,
and Margaret and Catherine, they're just...
they're just too old for this.
We are running low on food.
And our water supply is real bad.
The less mouths to feed, the better.
- Well, that's getting worse. - Yeah.
Let me see.
It hurts real bad.
Ooh-whee.
- Hey. - Hmm?
- I'm thinking you should go. - Well, is David going?
No.
- Then I'm not going. - Look at your finger.
If that infection spreads, you... I mean, you could lose your hand.
- I know. - You could lose your life.
It hurts so bad, I can't sleep.
Cut it off.
What?
I'm gonna lose it anyway, Steve.
- Cut it off. - No!
Has everyone around here lost their minds?
Nobody's cutting your finger off! And I'm sending you outside
- to get medical attention. - No, you're not!
- Yes I am... - No, you are not!
I just got off the phone. They're sending four people out.
- Two of 'em, kids. - That's a start.
Four people seems hardly cause for celebration.
Well, they're starting to trickle out. The strategy's working.
Now, you think you can help me coordinate bringing 'em out?
Yeah, sure.
Mama.
Mama. Ma...
Hey, there.
I'm Gary. What's your name?
- Leona. - Leona?
Such a pretty name.
Hey, why don't we call your mom and tell her you're okay?
- We can't call her. - Why not?
Because you killed her.
- Hey, Steve? - Yep?
I was wondering if you could talk to the FBI about Perry.
See if they'll let us bury his body outside.
I asked you to bury his body in the storm shelter.
- I know. It's just... Michelle. - Mm-hmm.
I know it would mean a lot to her
if we could bury him by the myrtle tree...
It's impossible. It's not gonna happen.
Could you just ask? Please?
I can try.
All right, today, we got something a little different for y'all.
Our guest today is a Dr. James Tabor, professor of... what was it?
I specialize in emergent religions.
Emergent religions.
Let's talk about your interest in this Branch Davidian cult.
Yeah, I'm gonna stop you right there, Ron.
I would propose that there's no such thing as a cult.
"Cult" is a judgment word used to talk about somebody else's
tightly-knit religious group.
Nobody in the world belongs to what they see as a cult.
Yeah, but there are certain traits you think of
- when you think of a cult. - That's true.
The early Christians, by our definition, belonged to a cult.
So you're saying Jesus was a cult leader?
I wasn't saying it exactly like that,
but by the common definition of "cult," yes.
Oh, that got the phones ringing. You done it now, Dr. Tabor.
Excuse me. My son is in Mt. Carmel, and I need to talk to him.
How did you get past the barricade?
Listen, I am not altogether sure how he got mixed up in all this mess,
but I know if I could talk to him, if I could just speak to him,
that I could get him to come out.
I'm sorry, I can't let you do that.
- Why not? - Because I don't wanna give him
or anyone in there the chance to tie up loose ends.
You think that they're gonna kill themselves?
Doesn't matter what I think.
But I'm not gonna give them a chance to say goodbye either way.
Please escort her back behind the checkpoint.
I just wanna know if he's all right.
His name is David Thibodeau.
The news reports aren't releasing any names.
I'm sorry, ma'am. I don't have any more information at this time.
I just need to know if he's alive! Please!
David, your fever's not breaking.
I'm afraid you're going to die if we don't get you help.
It's all part of God's plan.
No. I just lost my father. I'm not gonna lose you, too.
- Hello? - Hello. Who's this?
- Cyrus. - David's son.
- Yeah. - Well, hello, Cyrus.
Can you put your dad on the phone?
Are you gonna kill me?
No. No one's going to kill you.
Cyrus?
Thanks, buddy.
Come here.
Hello, this is Steve Schneider.
Oh, hey, Steve. Just wanted to give you a quick call
and let you know that everybody arrived safe.
Good. Well, I hope that shows you what we're about.
We wanna see this resolved peacefully.
Of course. I can tell you're the voice of reason in there.
I bet people count on you to make sure they're taken care of.
I'm not sure that's true.
Well, from what I hear,
you're the reason the group's grown like it has.
The reason that the group has grown is because of David's teaching,
not because of anything I'm doing.
I think you're being modest.
Knowing everything you know now...
are you happy you brought all those people in there?
I'm not sure what you're driving at, Gary.
Well, do you think David has everyone's best interest in mind?
Yeah. I do.
Because, forgive me for saying this,
but I can't help but notice a trend that when God comes to talk
to modern-day prophets,
it seems one thing He always tells them to do
is have sex with lots of young women.
Well, that's a pretty cynical view of what we're doing here.
I'm not sure I appreciate your tone with that one.
- Then explain it to me. - I'm not stupid.
I know you're trying to create dissent between me and David.
You're right, I am. 'Cause you know what I think?
I think David's dying,
and I think he doesn't mind bringing all of you with him.
You know, Gary, where you've got this all wrong,
the thing that you're missing...
is this is real.
I do believe that David is the Lamb of God.
Not because of any trick he's pulled,
but because of what I have seen with my own two eyes.
But he's lost his way, Steve. I think you can see it.
For years, David has been prophesying exactly what is happening here.
From the way you came in, to the tanks, the soldiers, everything.
I can't figure out another explanation that makes any sense.
For a minor weapons violation? All this?
You think he's lost his way?
Everything David has prophesied has come true.
Hey, guys, stay away from the window.
It's not safe.
Why are they doing that?
I don't know.
Come on. Let's go.
What's going on?
What goes through people's heads, you know?
I mean, these HRT guys, what makes grown men act like that?
They're mooning kids, for God's sake.
They're just built that way.
The sad thing is, the Davidians can't tell us apart from them.
I need you to get me a video camera.
Ready? How's my hair?
It's about as good as it's gonna get.
Knock it off.
All right. We're good.
Hello. I'm Gary Noesner.
The notorious.
And...
this is my family.
Yeah, that's my wife, Carol, there,
and my kids, Kelly, Katy, and Rusty, and I love 'em.
I'm sure you love your kids the same way.
And there is literally nothing I wouldn't do to keep my children safe.
I'm sure we share that feeling.
Now, any way you look at it, this is a bad situation,
but I wanna make sure that your kids remain safe through it all.
So, please...
please work with me.
Help me keep your kids safe.
Rachel?
Hey, I got a weird question.
Y'know, I...
Uh... I'm not producing any milk.
And... I was wondering if you had some to spare for Mayanah.
I'm having the same problem. All the mothers are.
- You are? - Yeah. Sorry.
Oh, God.
All right.
Shh, shh, shh...
This universe is mine.
I can't believe Koresh likes this.
I am God here!
Jesus.
- I don't get this movie. - Mm.
I can't say it makes my top 10 list either.
You're wrong. You need to be led...
Ready?
Yeah.
- Hello? - Hey, Gary, it's Steve.
Um, we just wanted to say thanks for sending the videotape.
We understand what you're trying to do,
and we really appreciate you making that effort.
I just wanted you to know that there's some people out here
who care about what happens to you, that's all.
Yeah. Um...
I do have one small problem,
and I could really use your help.
- What kinda problem? - So...
I guess because of the stress of all this,
the mothers who are nursing have... have stopped lactating.
So... we need milk.
For the babies. Could you send some in?
- Let me talk to my bosses. - Okay. Thanks, Gary.
You bet.
No, I'm not throwing them a picnic on national TV.
They want milk, they can come out and get it.
Look. Usually the people I negotiate with are backed into a corner.
They need something. And that's what gives me leverage.
But these people, they just want us to go away.
The only way I've been able to motivate them is with goodwill.
But now, their babies need milk, and we can give it to them.
This is something we can build on. We can use this.
So, Steve, I talked to my bosses,
and they're gonna give you the milk.
Aw, Gary.
Thank you. I really appreciate that.
But there's one condition. You're gonna have to send some kids out.
Wait. Um... let me just make sure I'm hearing you correctly.
Um, you want us to trade...
our kids for the milk?
I wouldn't really put it like that. I'm just saying that...
Look, I don't wanna point out the obvious,
but if we send out our kids, then we won't need the milk, will we?
Steve?
- Yeah? - May I?
Um, yeah. David wants to talk to you.
Yeah, how much milk we talking here, Gary?
- David... - Two quarts per kid? Three?
I mean, some kids gotta be worth more than others.
Cyrus, my son, he's eight,
but he can fix any car engine you put in front of him.
That's gotta be worth, what, at least three quarts and a milkshake?
You people.
You shouldn't have done that.
You know we have to work with them.
Yeah, well...
good luck with that, Steve.
Rachel? This is how I'd like to ration out the food and water.
Can you take care of that?
No one's gonna be happy with this.
Well, if they don't like it, they're welcome to leave.
Steve. Steve, did you get any news about the milk?
Yeah. I'm... I'm... I'm working on it. I promise.
Hey, Steve, have you had a chance to talk to the FBI about Perry?
Look, Thibs, just bury the body like I asked you. Okay?
- You get bacon on yours? - Yeah.
Oh. I shoulda gotten bacon on mine.
You know, that's how we stopped the Clarksville prison riot.
- With bacon? - Oh, yeah.
It was after day eight, and we took a bunch of bacon
and threw it on some coals.
The prisoners smelled it and were instantly overcome with hunger.
And I told them,
if they came out, they could eat as much as they want.
Never underestimate what a hungry man will do for bacon.
Shame the Davidians don't eat pork.
It is.
We've got movement outside the compound.
- All agents to their posts. - Shit.
Prepare to fire on command.
- It's Steve. - Steve! What's going on?
Tactical says someone exited the compound.
Shit!
It's Thibodeau. He's unarmed!
He's just trying to bury a body. Please don't shoot him!
Okay, hang on, Steve.
- Where's Decker? - I don't know.
Copy sniper one, sniper one, you got the loop.
- Steve! - Get out of my way!
Thibs! You gotta get back in here!
Tell your man to stand down!
This is a tactical decision. It's not your call, Gary.
No, no. He's just trying to bury a body.
And I'm telling you, you don't know what he's burying.
That could be a bomb, for all we know.
Damn it, I'm telling you, the kid's unarmed.
And I'm telling you, you don't know that, Gary.
Now, I can't have people strolling outside,
walking around, looking at our positions on things.
The kid is trying to bury one of his dead, Mitch.
They let the ATF take their wounded away. Show 'em the same respect.
They lost my respect when they started killing federal agents, Gary.
All right, all right. You want another Ruby Ridge on your hands?
- Yeah. - Go ahead, shoot that boy.
But just remember, the ATF's not gonna be around
- to take the blame this time! - I don't give a shit!
Requesting permission to take the shot. Over.
I have the target in my view.
Repeat, requesting permission to take the shot. Over.
Stand down.
Thank you. Good morning, everyone.
A few days ago, the FBI learned
that the Branch Davidians ran out of milk.
And they are no longer able to feed their children.
Nice of them to tell the truth for once.
Numerous attempts have been made by the FBI
to deliver milk for their babies,
but they have all been refused.
It seems they are using their own children as pawns in this thing.
David Koresh...
let us bring milk to those children.
Pawns, Gary? We're using our kids as pawns?
- Is that what you think? - No, it's not.
Then why are they saying that on TV?
- I don't know. - Your boss said
they have made attempts to deliver milk.
Now, when did that happen? Because we've been here the entire time,
and I don't recall anyone knocking on our door!
Steve, look. I wanna get you that milk. That's the God's honest truth.
But you're gonna have to let out some of the kids in return.
I'm sorry, Gary. That's not gonna happen.
With cult leader David Koresh
becoming less involved in direct negotiations,
authorities suspect his wounds may be getting worse.
Agents told cult members that those not charged with serious offenses
eventually will be allowed to return to the compound
once it's cleared of the crime scene.
- Sheriff Harwell? - Yeah?
I'm Gary Noesner, Head Negotiator, FBI.
Mm. Can I help you?
You mind?
Well...
when I can't get a guy to trust me,
I try and find someone he will trust.
And David Koresh trusts you.
Mm.
I could really use your help.
- This is David. - David, it's Sheriff Harwell.
Hey, Jack.
Sure is nice to hear a friendly voice.
David, I came down here today
because I wanna make sure that those babies get the milk they need.
Well, they said on the news
it was us refusing to make this happen, Jack.
It's just...
these are our children they're asking us to give up.
I understand, but...
it might not be the worst thing to get the babies fed,
and at the same time, get some of your other kids out of harm's way.
- You know what I'm saying? - Yeah, I do.
Good. Now, David, how much milk do you think you need?
- Six gallons will do. - All right.
Now, David, I'm gonna get ya the six gallons,
but you gotta keep a level head in this
while we try to resolve this thing.
Thank you, Jack. You're a good man.
Look, I just don't think we should make it so easy on 'em.
Jesus. You think we made it easy on 'em?
They agreed to send their kids out, for Christ's sake.
Right now, the only card we have to play is creating goodwill.
No, it's not. That's your only card, Gary.
Look, the people they're sending out won't talk.
And we have no idea what's going on in there...
what they're planning to do.
All right. What's your point, Noesner?
If we send the milk in and bug it somehow...
we'll have ears inside.
That'll help me with negotiations, and Mitch, tactically.
Do it.
_
- Judy, you need... - Shh.
Just got her to sleep.
What's going on?
- Are there more people going? - Yeah.
And I want you and Mayanah to be two of 'em.
No. I already told you, Steve. I can't go...
Well, this is not about you anymore. This is about Mayanah.
You asked me to look out for her like she was my own.
Well, that's what I'm doing. This is what that looks like.
I don't trust the people out there, though, Steve.
I don't trust them.
I know.
What about you? I can't leave you.
I should stay.
It's the right thing to do.
Hey, Luke. I'm gonna miss that inquisitive mind.
I want you to take care of your mama. All right, give me a hug.
Okay.
All right.
What are Judy and Mayanah doing in the hallway?
'Cause they're leaving.
Six gallons. Bugs are in the crate.
Need a vest?
They don't wanna shoot me.
All right.
Is that everyone?
Um, Dave, I'd like you to send out...
Judy and Mayanah.
No.
I can't do that.
Okay.
You know, I've never asked you for anything.
In all the years I've known you,
everything I have done has been for you.
Please, David. I'm asking you this one thing.
And I'll talk to Judy.
She can just tell them that... that Mayanah is my daughter.
But, Steve...
she's not your daughter.
She's mine.
Right.
I wanna stay with you.
Oh, I wanna stay with you, too, baby.
- But God wants me to stay here. - Mommy...?
And I need to keep you safe, okay?
You're the greatest gift God ever gave me.
Let's go.
Hey, guys. Right up here.
You got it? Come here.
Come here, buddy. Come here. Come here. Let's go. Come on with me.
How many guns you think they're pointing at us right now?
I bet a lot.
- Steve, hi. Wayne, Gary Noesner. - Hey.
- Hi. - Yeah, I've seen your video.
But I'm sure I'm much better-looking in person, right?
Let's just say that you got a pretty good face for radio.
Could we just get this over with?
Yeah, sure. I'm sorry.
Steve, can I talk to you for a minute, just you and I?
Yeah. It's okay.
You need to know your people are in a lot more danger than you think.
And in my experience, the longer these situations go on,
the more erratic people's behavior gets.
Yeah, we're seeing that on our side, too.
Uh-huh.
- Can I ask you something, Steve? - Yeah.
Whose child is Mayanah?
We've all made a lot of sacrifices to be here.
- She's David's child, isn't she? - I made a choice.
Judy made a choice.
How is she, Judy? I heard she was shot.
- She's fine. - She's fine?
She has a bullet in her, and her baby needs milk, but she's fine?
She's still in there. Why is that?
- Because we made a decision together... - No. No, I think
David was the one who made that decision, not you.
I think if it were up to you,
Judy would be in that vehicle right now, with Mayanah.
Am I wrong?
Now, look, Steve, the thing you gotta realize
is that you do have the power to make your own decisions.
Decisions for you, for Judy, for Mayanah, for everyone in there
who is waiting for someone to find the courage to lead them out.
You know, it's funny... I can't tell you
how many times I wanted to leave this place.
And all the fire ants and the dust storms...
and David.
Oh, you're right. David's horrible.
Self-centered, rude.
I wish that God would have chosen
any other person on the earth to speak through instead of him.
But you know what?
Despite everything you're saying,
no one's explained to me what we did to deserve all this.
You know, you have the power to end this, too.
How's that?
You could just leave.
We weren't bothering anybody.
Yeah, I know.
Thanks for the milk.
All right. We're rolling.
Okay.
Say whatever you wanna say.
Well...
I just wanna say thanks a lot for killing my dad.
My dad's name was Perry Jones.
He was an unarmed man.
And...
you just shot him through the door, so...
thanks a lot.
- And thanks for the milk. - Yeah, thanks for the milk.
Wow.
Is it bleeding again?
- It's all over the pillow. - Well...
it ain't nothing for a tough guy like me.
A lot of beliefs people have may seem abnormal
or strange to other people,
but that doesn't mean it's not right, though.
God speaks to me. I have a message to present.
And you may not believe that.
If you don't believe that, then believe this,
irrespective of God speaking to me.
See this here?
This is my family. May not be like your family.
But you come pointing guns
in the direction of my wives and my kids?
Damn it, I will meet you at the door any time.
I'm sorry some of you guys got shot.
But, hey...
God'll have to sort that out, won't He?
You still think you can reason with this guy?
What are you gonna do with that?
Can't let this get out. Makes him look too normal.
_
Your boy's alive.
Thank you. Thank you.
Okay.
I wanted to thank you, Steve.
For what?
Taking care of everyone when I was down.
And for not leaving.
I know you've been having your doubts.
I understand.
Heck... I've had my own, too.
- You need something? - Yeah.
Glass of milk would be nice.
- No, that's for the kids, David. - I know it is,
but I just escaped death by the grace of God,
and to be honest with you, milk would do us good.
No one'll know, Steve.
Glass of milk, I have to admit,
would be pretty good right about now.
That's a yes.
Gonna be the best glass of milk we've ever had.
They don't give a shit about those kids. When are you gonna see it?
I see it.
The only thing people like this respond to is pressure.
Does it feel like they have any pressure on them to you?
- They sure don't. - We been here, what, eight days?
The only thing we have to show for it is, what, 19 people?
We keep up at this rate, we'll be here till Christmas.
You been letting Gary do his thing.
How 'bout you let me do a little of mine?
And Bubba might say,
"But ain't they messin' with young girls in there?"
And I got this to say to Bubba.
The ATF has no jurisdiction in matters of young girls.
Or sex, or polygamy, or anything else they're talking about.
It's none of their damn business.
Their business...
is alcohol, tobacco, and firearms. Period.
And yes, David Koresh did marry his wife when she was 14.
And you might have feelings about that,
just like I have feelings about that myself.
I have a daughter. I find the idea reprehensible.
But according to Texas law,
it is legal to marry a 14-year-old if her parents give consent.
Which, again, I am not saying is right.
But I am saying, if you have a problem with it,
your problem is actually with Texas law.
Not David Koresh.
The Branch Davidians have hung a sheet outside the window
saying they want the press.
Reporters have their own take on the sign.
God help us, we are the press!
...siege against the Branch Davidians in Waco, Texas.
And raise similar questions about the...
I just don't understand why they won't let us talk to them.
Ma'am, if your son were here right...
No, no. Go back.
...web surrounded this house...
What would you want to tell him?
If you want to look in the camera and speak to him,
what would you want to say to him?
Do you know her?
That's my mom.
Dave, honey...
I know the last time you were home, I didn't listen very well.
I... I got my issues with the Bible and stuff.
And I know that you got a group in there
that you really care about, and they're like family.
But I'm your family. And you're the only family I've got.
And if anything ever happened to you, I don't know what I'd do.
Thank you.
Dave, please? Come out.
And I promise I'm gonna be a better listener, okay?
I promise I'm gonna be a better mother.
So, please, just come on out.
Thank you. Thank you so much.
- Everyone stay calm. - What happened?
Synced & corrected by kinglouisxx www.addic7ed.com