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sync & correction by f1nc0
~ Addic7ed.com ~

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New York City is the heart
and soul of comic books.

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That's where
these guys that drew it grew up.

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That's where they created
these characters.

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Instead of having them live
in a fictional place,

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I plunked 'em right down
in New York City.

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Whatever happens in New York

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is going to affect comic books
whether you want it to or not.

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What is the comic book
industry supposed to do

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when you have a serious moral and
political challenge in New York City?

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9/11 changed New York City
and comic books forever.

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_

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_

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New York City is this city of heroes.

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When you look at a comic book,
you open it up,

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I don't care... if it's The Avengers,
Peter Parker,

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you're...
you're in New York City,

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and to understand the centrality
of this city to superheroes,

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you've gotta go back
to the beginning.

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New York
has always been synonymous

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with being a place
where dreams come true.

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It was the gateway to America.

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It's just a place where everybody has
to cohabitate and figure it out.

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New York, New York
is so nice, they named it twice.

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It's the Earth, you know,

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sort of crammed onto
this one little island.

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New York has always been that,

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and it was especially that
in the 20th century,

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when comic books were becoming
a part of popular culture.

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New York was geographically
central to comic books.

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The American comic book
was born in New York

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by creators that had their roots
in the ghettoes of New York.

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I was born on Essex Street,

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New York's Lower East Side.

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I lived in the Bronx, in New York.

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I was a poor kid, very poor,

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and a tough neighborhood,
too, I lived in.

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You have
all these writers and artists

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in this city in and amongst
the turmoil of the great wars

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and the Great Depression,

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and dreaming up
these larger-than-life figures

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who come in and make it right.

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What Action Comics
with Superman did

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is it used this low format
as a vehicle

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to tell a story that ignited
the popular imagination.

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Presenting America's
number-one comic strip character...

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Yes, it's Superman.

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American superheroes are... are
really kind of a wish fulfillment,

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but they're also a way
of facing our fears.

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They... they are the kind of
instrument, the vehicle that

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we'd like to step into
so that we can be bulletproof.

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Siegel and Shuster, you know,
created Superman that way,

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so that it could be this
metaphor for us kind of

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holding up a shield against
these attacking forces.

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All your core characters
are found in New York.

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Metropolis is a glyph
for New York.

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To Batman, Gotham City
is also a glyph for New York.

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The scale, the buildings,

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they were all part of
the dream of New York

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that existed around the world.

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By the 1960s,
the big Marvel heroes come out.

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Stan Lee collaborated
with Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko

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to create, you know, Spider-Man,

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the Avengers,

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the Fantastic Four,

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Daredevil,

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Doctor Strange...

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Instead of having them live
in a fictional place,

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like Metropolis or Gotham City,

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I plunked 'em right down
in New York City...

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Because I knew New York City,

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I could write about New York City,

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and I figured,
why not let 'em live in a real place?

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Marvel Comics
made New York City

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the center of this moral drama,

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and they've made it
the home of the imagination

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of a whole generation
of young people.

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I grew up in the Bronx, originally,

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and I would read comic books
all the time,

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and I could imagine as a kid,
you know,

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Spider-Man swinging
from building to building,

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and I remember as a child
looking up, saying,

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"Wow, if I could only do that."

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It brought it that much more... real.

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I remember the first time
that I went to New York City.

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I was maybe 12 or 13,
and we went to the Statue of Liberty.

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I remember thinking, "Oh, I think I
read an issue of, um, Marvel Team-Up

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with Spider-Man and somebody
that took place here."

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My whole orientation
to New York at the time

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was absolutely via Marvel Comics.

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In the late '60s, Marvel
Comics were the ones that,

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it seemed like, were more tackling
the upheaval and changes

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that were going on.

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You've got civil strife
in New York City,

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and so everything's changing,

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and because everything
was changing in life,

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everything was changing in art.

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Comics were
becoming more socially relevant

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and more interesting.

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The X-Men,
a metaphor for civil rights.

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These were normal people,
flawed human beings,

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people who, in various ways,

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had dealt with prejudices and bigotry

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and intolerance of whatever kind.

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Comic books
talked about the real world,

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which is what Denny O'Neil and I
were very conscious of

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when we did the Green Lantern,
Green Arrow series.

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That comic book talked about
my neighborhood up in the Bronx

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and dealing with drug problems.

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It talked about overpopulation.

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Comics were getting more
sophisticated, more marketed to adults.

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In the '80s, you had the Punisher,
but you also had Watchmen.

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Those were really,
really challenging stories.

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They were stories about
changing the status quo

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and necessary fascism
and all those kind of things.

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We can't believe in
these super Boy Scouts anymore.

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We don't know anybody in real
life who behaves like that,

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and the readers don't believe in them,
so we've just tried to make them

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a little bit more like
real 20th-century human beings.

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And then Frank Miller
made a massive difference

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with The Dark Knight,

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and his Daredevil work was brilliant.

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Frank brought a level of realism
that was really unprecedented.

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Watchmen,
Dark Knight, Daredevil

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were based out of New York.

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They infused political topics,
you know, gang violence.

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You could feel the city.

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You could feel the grit
of the place in every panel.

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By 2000 and 2001,

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comics had a mature enough
base of storytellers in New York

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to be able to speak to the unique
concerns of the 21st century.

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We just had a plane
just crash into an upper floor

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of the World Trade Center.

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Then you had 9/11,

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and the diet of heroism
changes worldwide

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because of what happened
to those artists in New York.

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Comic books are a kind of
monolith to New York City,

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the same way
the Twin Towers were.

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You look at them, and they're
kind of this gleaming ideal

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of American ingenuity,
culture, art.

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The Twin Towers
were about as iconic a...

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a New York landmark as there is.

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I can remember
when they were being built,

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the newspapers talking about
how they were hideous,

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how they shouldn't be built,
how it would "ruin the skyline."

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And then,
when they were completed,

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people finally realized,
"Wow, they are majestic."

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Superheroes are operatic,
larger-than-life ideas.

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The Twin Towers represented

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this symbol of American triumphalism,

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and that is reflected in the comic
books and the popular culture.

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And then you had 9/11,
after which everything changes.

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The unimaginable happens,

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and it happens right in the beating
heart of America, New York City,

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which is the heart and soul
of comic books.

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It's difficult to find the words

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to describe the feeling
in New York City today.

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New York City is in shock,

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one of its most famous
landmarks destroyed,

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thousands dead,
and America is under siege.

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What the hell is going on?
What happened?

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It was a day like any other day.

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I remember it like it was yesterday.

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I was home on 27th Street.

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We could see what was going on

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from the point of view
of the clouds of smoke.

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I feel a sense of tragedy that,
you know, men do this to other men.

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Watching the TV
and seeing the plume of smoke,

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and then opening the window
and seeing the plume of smoke...

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It was nothing I've ever
experienced before.

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My parents were visiting, and...

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and my father and I had planned to
walk around and explore Wall Street,

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and, uh, I ended up sleepin' in
a little later to...

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to catch a slightly later train,
and when I did come downstairs,

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uh... my folks were in front
of the TV, watchin' CNN,

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and we watched
the whole thing unfold,

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and I... I went out my backyard,

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climbed up to the top of the hill,

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and, uh, you know, even from
there, could see the smoke rising.

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Our lives changed.
Everybody's lives changed.

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So many lives were lost.

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The Marvel and DC offices
were both in New York,

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and so all of our friends,
the people that we cared about,

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people that we were
in the industry with,

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we wanted to make sure
that everybody was okay,

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and everybody was not okay.

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Some people dealt with
their grief really differently.

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The... the dust from 9/11

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is on the... the... the tables
and the platforms in those buildings

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when it's time to go back in
there and make the next issue.

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My mom worked
in the World Trade Center

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when I... when I
was a young kid, you know.

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I used to visit the Twin Towers
all the time,

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and so for me, they were personal.

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How do I represent
what has happened...

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in a way that's not just
for entertainment?

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Comics responded
to 9/11 immediately.

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Marvel was probably
the first on the scene.

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Joe Quesada and Bill Jemas...

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Joe was the editor-in-chief,
Bill was the publisher...

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were the first to go,
"We're New Yorkers.

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This is our town,
this thing happened here.

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We've gotta talk to our people,"

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and so they created a pinup
anthology called "Heroes,"

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which gathered
all of the best talent

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that was able to turn in
a great piece of art in a week,

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and they created
"A Moment of Silence,"

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which was a comic book narrative
that spoke to the concerns of 9/11.

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They immediately went
on The Today Show.

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They immediately went out
into the world

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and started saying,
"We've got something to say.

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We've got what you want to hear."

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What is the thing that
Marvel Comics is trying to do

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- that is important here?
- Well, again, we...

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we strive to tell stories of
the heroic ideal,

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and I think what we saw after 9/11

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was that the heroic ideal
was living amongst us,

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and it walks amongst us every day,

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and we... we always
take it for granted

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until we actually
need these people.

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The 20 years leading up to 9/11

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was about a quest for legitimacy
in the comic book industry.

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We wanted to be seen as important

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as any other form
of popular culture,

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but they weren't afforded that respect.

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They were regarded as low value.

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They were regarded
as this thing that was lesser.

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This stigma really became neutral,

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it really went away, after 9/11,

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and it went away because comics
were the first on the scene

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to respond in an intelligent way
people could relate to.

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Whenever you're going through

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those big changes in a civilization,
uh, people need stories.

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People reach for stories.

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The superhero genre gives you
a great opportunity

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to process all of that.

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Jan Michael Straczynski

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wrote a Spider-Man comic
where Spider-Man's at 9/11,

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and he expresses all those feelings,
in December of 2001.

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Spider-Man down at
ground zero, it's the sense of...

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I mean, even me, as an FBI agent...
Your soul is ruined.

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You are internally destroyed.

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"With all my great power,
with all what I have,

244
00:14:32,205 --> 00:14:35,406
with all what I was given,
it still happened,"

245
00:14:35,408 --> 00:14:39,944
and that is hard to accept.
It's hard to live with.

246
00:14:41,914 --> 00:14:44,349
I remember, like,
one of the most striking panels

247
00:14:44,351 --> 00:14:47,518
was Doctor Doom rolling a tear.

248
00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:48,754
You know how many times

249
00:14:48,755 --> 00:14:51,189
we've seen Doctor Doom
take on New York?

250
00:14:51,191 --> 00:14:55,127
Even Doctor Doom was like, "Whoa."

251
00:14:55,561 --> 00:14:59,248
It set up a lot of really interesting things,
the way that they portrayed the heroes,

252
00:14:59,283 --> 00:15:03,526
because the superheroes,
they were actually drew smaller.

253
00:15:03,569 --> 00:15:05,169
The heroes are often
in the background,

254
00:15:05,171 --> 00:15:07,457
where you see the... the firefighters
and the other rescue workers

255
00:15:07,492 --> 00:15:09,274
in the front in that particular issue.

256
00:15:09,909 --> 00:15:14,913
We've done heroes for
years and years, but they were...

257
00:15:14,915 --> 00:15:18,650
they were not real, compared to,
you know, the police, and firemen,

258
00:15:18,652 --> 00:15:23,521
and paramedics that came in and
actually, you know, helped people.

259
00:15:23,523 --> 00:15:27,425
It's something that the companies
really wanted to get across.

260
00:15:30,296 --> 00:15:34,699
These fictional ideas, they
couldn't stop the atrocity from happening,

261
00:15:34,701 --> 00:15:37,936
but they can help frame the way
that we cope with the atrocity.

262
00:15:37,938 --> 00:15:40,672
They can help frame the way
that we deal with

263
00:15:40,674 --> 00:15:42,941
the world that had changed.

264
00:15:43,175 --> 00:15:47,011
These characters had sudden resonance.

265
00:15:48,347 --> 00:15:51,249
I think that comics,
after 9/11, were just beginning.

266
00:15:51,251 --> 00:15:56,287
I think the superhero worlds
were really just beginning.

267
00:15:56,289 --> 00:15:59,357
You need these superhuman beings

268
00:15:59,359 --> 00:16:02,360
to sort of fight out,
in an exaggerated way,

269
00:16:02,362 --> 00:16:05,200
the challenges of the time.

270
00:16:12,271 --> 00:16:13,604
After 9/11,

271
00:16:13,606 --> 00:16:16,708
New York City was kind of
an incredible place to be.

272
00:16:16,710 --> 00:16:19,410
Everyone was kind of coming together

273
00:16:19,412 --> 00:16:23,214
in this way that I'd never
experienced, you know, before or since.

274
00:16:25,452 --> 00:16:29,143
I saw just a lot of
people just together, bein' friends,

275
00:16:29,178 --> 00:16:32,056
a big change in the way
people acted and talked then.

276
00:16:32,058 --> 00:16:35,660
You just got a warm welcome
from everybody you saw.

277
00:16:36,662 --> 00:16:40,598
We suddenly started
plastering American flags

278
00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:42,066
in our apartment windows,

279
00:16:42,068 --> 00:16:45,670
and adding American flags
to our comic books.

280
00:16:47,673 --> 00:16:49,542
That was a time when patriotism

281
00:16:49,543 --> 00:16:52,347
became much more important in America.

282
00:16:53,645 --> 00:16:55,580
The first Spider-Man
movie with Tobey Maguire

283
00:16:55,582 --> 00:16:58,694
had been filmed, had been
written, before 9/11 happened,

284
00:16:58,729 --> 00:17:02,020
but the movie opened
with an American flag.

285
00:17:02,022 --> 00:17:06,190
It closed with an American flag, which was
really, really a big thing after 9/11.

286
00:17:06,192 --> 00:17:09,427
People just... I think they felt
that when they went and saw it,

287
00:17:09,429 --> 00:17:13,318
and I think that's one of the reasons
why it became as popular as it did.

288
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,749
That patriotism, and,
specifically, New Yorkers

289
00:17:17,923 --> 00:17:22,473
comin' together and,
"I love New York," uh, kind of vibe

290
00:17:22,475 --> 00:17:24,709
was a very important
part of the film...

291
00:17:24,711 --> 00:17:28,579
to show the bad guys that, you
know, they can't keep us down.

292
00:17:28,581 --> 00:17:30,581
They can, you know, they can
maybe knock us down,

293
00:17:30,583 --> 00:17:33,317
but New York is going
to get right back up.

294
00:17:34,753 --> 00:17:37,388
The advertising campaign for Spider-Man

295
00:17:37,390 --> 00:17:41,392
was built around the Twin Towers,
and there was a teaser trailer,

296
00:17:41,394 --> 00:17:44,128
and Spider-Man, uh,
basically saves the day

297
00:17:44,130 --> 00:17:46,697
by spinning a web
between the Twin Towers.

298
00:17:46,699 --> 00:17:49,834
It was a great campaign, a great
way of kind of, you know, saying,

299
00:17:49,836 --> 00:17:53,171
saying, "Hey, here's this hero that
you've been waiting for all these years,

300
00:17:53,173 --> 00:17:55,841
going to be on the big
screen in New York City,

301
00:17:55,876 --> 00:17:58,332
and what could be
more iconic for New York?"

302
00:17:58,367 --> 00:18:01,112
But at the same time, those images
became these kind of triggers

303
00:18:01,114 --> 00:18:04,282
for just really complicated
emotional reactions for people,

304
00:18:04,284 --> 00:18:07,729
so they pulled that entire campaign.

305
00:18:07,764 --> 00:18:10,521
I remember havin'
a conversation with Sam about...

306
00:18:10,523 --> 00:18:15,225
He was talkin' to the marketing
people, and sayin', you know,

307
00:18:15,226 --> 00:18:17,625
"Maybe we just leave it."

308
00:18:18,230 --> 00:18:22,667
But the decision was made to deal
with the reality in the aftermath.

309
00:18:25,838 --> 00:18:30,707
You could see something about
that movie was kind of taking hold.

310
00:18:31,376 --> 00:18:37,372
With Spider-Man, he's a guy
who's kind of a metaphor for the Everyman.

311
00:18:38,183 --> 00:18:43,454
It was a man personally going
out there, fighting for New York,

312
00:18:43,456 --> 00:18:49,460
and taking matters in his own hands,
and you have epic evil battles.

313
00:18:49,462 --> 00:18:52,263
They're superheroes,
and they're winning,

314
00:18:52,265 --> 00:18:54,553
and so it's something
that all of us...

315
00:18:54,588 --> 00:18:56,701
It was probably
the most gratifying thing

316
00:18:56,703 --> 00:18:59,170
that could come along
at that moment.

317
00:18:59,738 --> 00:19:02,727
After we had all felt so powerless,

318
00:19:02,762 --> 00:19:06,711
the world was just ripe
for that kind of storytelling.

319
00:19:06,713 --> 00:19:10,281
God bless you, Spider-Man.
Bless you.

320
00:19:10,283 --> 00:19:13,885
In a weird way, it was
Spider-Man that reminded Americans

321
00:19:13,887 --> 00:19:18,756
that after 9/11,
they needed superheroes.

322
00:19:18,758 --> 00:19:21,626
We wanted a savior we could believe in.

323
00:19:21,628 --> 00:19:23,895
We wanted a hero we could believe in,

324
00:19:23,897 --> 00:19:26,697
that would swoop in
and save New York,

325
00:19:26,699 --> 00:19:32,370
because saving New York was about
saving our idea of the United States.

326
00:19:32,372 --> 00:19:38,442
When Marvel recognized that they
had the opportunity to tell stories

327
00:19:38,444 --> 00:19:42,647
set in this ambiguous new
"war on terror" environment,

328
00:19:42,649 --> 00:19:45,783
they took the idea of superheroes

329
00:19:45,785 --> 00:19:51,255
and set the stakes in a way
that people would understand.

330
00:19:51,390 --> 00:19:55,143
Captain America, especially,
was a way to inspire people

331
00:19:55,144 --> 00:20:00,074
to cope with the changes that were
happening in the country at the time.

332
00:20:01,833 --> 00:20:03,701
Marvel wanted Captain America

333
00:20:03,703 --> 00:20:08,940
to represent something
that we really needed.

334
00:20:09,942 --> 00:20:11,943
Captain America
was a symbol of America.

335
00:20:11,945 --> 00:20:14,845
He was a New Yorker
fighting the Germans,

336
00:20:14,847 --> 00:20:16,681
you know, during World War II,

337
00:20:16,683 --> 00:20:19,283
at a time when our country
was at stake.

338
00:20:19,285 --> 00:20:22,420
Joe Simon and Jack Kirby
created him a little before the war,

339
00:20:22,422 --> 00:20:27,625
but as a rallying cry
to get America to fight fascism.

340
00:20:27,627 --> 00:20:28,893
Captain America punched Hitler

341
00:20:28,895 --> 00:20:32,330
a year before the U.S.
entered World War II.

342
00:20:34,466 --> 00:20:36,867
Suddenly, Captain America is

343
00:20:36,869 --> 00:20:40,671
resurrected in a much more
complicated environment.

344
00:20:40,673 --> 00:20:42,974
We're in a new world.

345
00:20:42,976 --> 00:20:44,976
It wasn't like, you know,

346
00:20:44,978 --> 00:20:49,847
"Captain America versus the Red Skull"
type of a conflict.

347
00:20:49,849 --> 00:20:52,750
It was just this... madness.

348
00:20:52,752 --> 00:20:56,954
There's such anger, and we'd better
blast the hell out of somebody.

349
00:20:56,956 --> 00:20:59,523
Everybody's ready to flatten someone.

350
00:21:00,726 --> 00:21:01,892
The House of Representatives

351
00:21:01,894 --> 00:21:04,395
has spoken clearly to the world.

352
00:21:04,397 --> 00:21:08,422
The gathering threat of Iraq
must be confronted.

353
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:13,604
Suddenly, we're going to invade Iraq,
that had nothing to do with 9/11.

354
00:21:13,606 --> 00:21:16,474
People started questioning their
government to the point of protest.

355
00:21:18,644 --> 00:21:21,679
It was a massive rally
up and down First Avenue.

356
00:21:21,681 --> 00:21:24,282
Fights broke out,
eight cops were injured,

357
00:21:24,284 --> 00:21:26,517
some 50 protesters arrested.

358
00:21:27,719 --> 00:21:31,004
In New York, you have Americans

359
00:21:31,090 --> 00:21:33,958
choosing sides
and becoming very partisan,

360
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,294
and that's just going to affect
comic books immediately,

361
00:21:36,296 --> 00:21:38,362
because all our offices
were in New York,

362
00:21:38,364 --> 00:21:39,629
and all our editors were in New York.

363
00:21:39,664 --> 00:21:43,968
Marvel has a New York office,
and so they're there in it,

364
00:21:43,970 --> 00:21:47,505
and you want to say something.
Writers force Cap

365
00:21:47,507 --> 00:21:50,041
to question the choices
his government was making,

366
00:21:50,043 --> 00:21:52,076
because the writers
could not continue

367
00:21:52,078 --> 00:21:54,979
to write this character
as a proud patriot

368
00:21:54,981 --> 00:21:59,016
when New York was going through
such a violent and terrible upheaval.

369
00:21:59,018 --> 00:22:02,320
Captain America is America, you know?

370
00:22:02,322 --> 00:22:04,588
He's the embodi...
He's the super-soldier.

371
00:22:04,590 --> 00:22:10,494
He's the leader of armies, and
then now he's opposed to the war.

372
00:22:10,496 --> 00:22:12,797
I was surprised
that comic books stepped up,

373
00:22:12,799 --> 00:22:15,866
because the Dixie Chicks said
something wrong about Bush,

374
00:22:15,868 --> 00:22:17,768
and their album sales dropped.

375
00:22:17,770 --> 00:22:19,403
Lead singer Natalie Maines said

376
00:22:19,405 --> 00:22:21,906
she was ashamed
President Bush was a Texan.

377
00:22:21,908 --> 00:22:25,076
Some protestors used a tractor
to smash the group's CDs...

378
00:22:25,078 --> 00:22:27,411
Suddenly, things were
a lot more blurry,

379
00:22:27,413 --> 00:22:30,848
and the black-and-white
ideologies of heroism

380
00:22:30,850 --> 00:22:36,520
that defined superheroes before 9/11
didn't really apply.

381
00:22:36,522 --> 00:22:38,756
When America becomes polarized

382
00:22:38,758 --> 00:22:41,359
and America no longer has a center,

383
00:22:41,361 --> 00:22:43,961
you're either on the left
or the right.

384
00:22:43,963 --> 00:22:46,897
Who does Cap side with?

385
00:22:46,899 --> 00:22:49,900
That question, just as it
tore apart American society,

386
00:22:49,902 --> 00:22:55,441
and New York in particular, tears
apart the comic book universes.

387
00:23:07,919 --> 00:23:11,489
At this hour,
American and coalition forces

388
00:23:11,491 --> 00:23:13,724
are in the early stages
of military operations

389
00:23:13,726 --> 00:23:17,628
to disarm Iraq, to free its people,

390
00:23:17,630 --> 00:23:20,398
and to defend the world
from grave danger.

391
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:24,769
After 9/11, the United States
goes from being unfairly victimized

392
00:23:24,771 --> 00:23:27,037
and therefore the object
of great affection

393
00:23:27,039 --> 00:23:30,875
to itself seeming to be a threat.

394
00:23:30,877 --> 00:23:35,980
The invasion of Iraq,
Guantanamo,

395
00:23:35,982 --> 00:23:40,418
and the Patriot Act, which
became a big overreach in terms of

396
00:23:40,420 --> 00:23:42,920
what the government gave itself
the permission to do,

397
00:23:42,922 --> 00:23:45,890
and that has its reverberations
in New York,

398
00:23:45,892 --> 00:23:47,992
and in the comic book world.

399
00:23:49,861 --> 00:23:54,498
In 2004, Marvel started
taking all their characters

400
00:23:54,500 --> 00:23:58,936
into one storyline every year and
creating a big event in New York where

401
00:23:58,938 --> 00:24:01,806
they would have to face
a threat that was large enough

402
00:24:01,808 --> 00:24:05,543
for the entire Marvel universe
to have to deal with together,

403
00:24:05,545 --> 00:24:09,613
and Mark Millar, a phenomenal writer,
had the genius idea to say,

404
00:24:09,615 --> 00:24:14,360
"Okay, what if this big threat
is really the heroes themselves?"

405
00:24:14,395 --> 00:24:17,216
It was unlike anything
anybody had ever done.

406
00:24:17,923 --> 00:24:19,657
I've found everything I've done

407
00:24:19,659 --> 00:24:22,760
relates to whatever is happening
in the world at that time,

408
00:24:22,762 --> 00:24:24,595
and Civil War was a response

409
00:24:24,597 --> 00:24:29,405
to the very polarized America that
I saw when I traveled to New York.

410
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,769
Every two or three months,
I used to be in New York,

411
00:24:31,771 --> 00:24:35,239
and I would see a country that
didn't seem very at ease with itself.

412
00:24:35,241 --> 00:24:36,607
People just seemed to be having

413
00:24:36,609 --> 00:24:38,509
these massive polarized
arguments, and, for me,

414
00:24:38,511 --> 00:24:43,247
that ended up working its way
into a superhero story.

415
00:24:43,249 --> 00:24:46,884
Mayhem in Manhattan...
Over 1,100 arrested

416
00:24:46,886 --> 00:24:49,186
as anti-Bush protesters
clash with police.

417
00:24:49,188 --> 00:24:50,955
Get back! Get outta here!

418
00:24:50,957 --> 00:24:52,823
Comic book artists and authors

419
00:24:52,825 --> 00:24:55,125
were able to use this visual medium

420
00:24:55,127 --> 00:24:58,062
to debate what was being debated

421
00:24:58,064 --> 00:25:02,099
in... in the political
sphere at the time.

422
00:25:02,101 --> 00:25:03,901
Civil War began with

423
00:25:03,903 --> 00:25:08,906
a tragedy in Stamford, Connecticut,
where the actions

424
00:25:08,908 --> 00:25:12,042
of a team of inexperienced
young superheroes

425
00:25:12,044 --> 00:25:14,812
resulted in the death
of several hundred people,

426
00:25:14,814 --> 00:25:16,614
including about 60 schoolchildren.

427
00:25:17,916 --> 00:25:22,253
It was obviously an analogue
to what happened in 9/11,

428
00:25:22,255 --> 00:25:26,056
so the U.S. government passed
the Superhero Registration Act,

429
00:25:26,058 --> 00:25:30,161
which required that all superpowered
beings register their identities

430
00:25:30,162 --> 00:25:34,265
with the government,
become trained by the government.

431
00:25:34,267 --> 00:25:37,836
In the Marvel "Civil War"
context, the government says,

432
00:25:37,871 --> 00:25:40,704
"Listen, you guys
are gonna have to register

433
00:25:40,706 --> 00:25:43,235
and do all these things
and follow all these rules."

434
00:25:43,808 --> 00:25:49,079
Is that securing freedom,
or is that the end of freedom?

435
00:25:49,081 --> 00:25:53,083
This is a question
that the Patriot Act raises.

436
00:25:53,085 --> 00:25:57,321
It's a question that
the entire war on terror raises.

437
00:25:57,323 --> 00:26:00,591
That question, just as it
tore apart New York City,

438
00:26:00,593 --> 00:26:03,561
tears apart the Marvel universe.

439
00:26:03,563 --> 00:26:08,699
It's that profound a question in
the minds of the artists and society,

440
00:26:08,701 --> 00:26:10,901
that you literally have a civil war,

441
00:26:10,903 --> 00:26:14,004
not between villains and heroes,

442
00:26:14,006 --> 00:26:16,106
but a war among the heroes,

443
00:26:16,108 --> 00:26:19,693
because the answers
are no longer obvious.

444
00:26:21,146 --> 00:26:23,847
"Civil War" was a case
where there were people

445
00:26:23,849 --> 00:26:28,218
who had different ideological
beliefs that led them into conflict.

446
00:26:28,220 --> 00:26:29,887
They... they thought they were right,

447
00:26:29,889 --> 00:26:32,723
and it was leading to all-out war.

448
00:26:33,191 --> 00:26:37,161
It pitted Captain America
and Iron Man against each other.

449
00:26:37,163 --> 00:26:40,998
Captain America's viewpoint was the
idea of "I fought for these freedoms.

450
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,885
I fought the Nazis for
this, and we're just going to

451
00:26:43,886 --> 00:26:46,770
voluntarily hand them over?
No, I'm not gonna do that,"

452
00:26:46,772 --> 00:26:50,107
whereas Iron Man's position was

453
00:26:50,109 --> 00:26:54,244
"We should trust in the government
to best manage this."

454
00:26:54,246 --> 00:26:56,847
Iron Man represented the Republicans

455
00:26:56,849 --> 00:27:00,217
because Tony Stark is really a guy
who has, like,

456
00:27:00,252 --> 00:27:02,213
loads and loads of money,
and he makes munitions,

457
00:27:02,248 --> 00:27:06,337
and Captain America represented
the Democrats...

458
00:27:07,125 --> 00:27:08,926
But Spider-Man's us.

459
00:27:08,928 --> 00:27:11,161
He was Everyman, trying
to work out "What do I do?"

460
00:27:11,163 --> 00:27:14,898
He was a moderate guy in the middle,
living in New York City,

461
00:27:14,900 --> 00:27:17,267
trying to work out
what was happening.

462
00:27:17,702 --> 00:27:20,337
I was a New Yorker at the time of 9/11,

463
00:27:20,339 --> 00:27:24,241
so I was, um...
traumatized and worried.

464
00:27:24,243 --> 00:27:27,644
I was behind the Iraq war,
the Patriot Act.

465
00:27:28,313 --> 00:27:31,682
The same thing happens with Spider-Man
in the "Civil War" comic books.

466
00:27:31,684 --> 00:27:36,353
Spider-Man stands for New York,
and he sides with Iron Man,

467
00:27:36,355 --> 00:27:39,223
but when he sees that Iron Man,
in enforcing this law,

468
00:27:39,225 --> 00:27:41,959
is taking superheroes and putting
them in other-dimensional prisons,

469
00:27:41,961 --> 00:27:46,263
spying on them, killing them,
Spider-Man starts to really wonder

470
00:27:46,265 --> 00:27:49,166
about the enforcement of this law,
and he defects.

471
00:27:49,168 --> 00:27:52,169
Yes, national security is really
important, but so are civil liberties,

472
00:27:52,171 --> 00:27:55,005
and that's not a little wussy thing

473
00:27:55,007 --> 00:27:57,586
to be concerned about.
It's not treasonous.

474
00:27:57,621 --> 00:28:01,445
Spider-Man sort of gave me
the courage to see that.

475
00:28:03,014 --> 00:28:05,082
I think one of the really interesting
things about "Civil War"

476
00:28:05,084 --> 00:28:06,850
is that it really doesn't
come to a conclusion

477
00:28:06,852 --> 00:28:09,012
about which side was better...

478
00:28:10,188 --> 00:28:12,790
And it ends with
the death of Captain America,

479
00:28:12,792 --> 00:28:15,159
which was a hugely publicized event.

480
00:28:17,228 --> 00:28:19,096
Today, comic book fans snapped up

481
00:28:19,098 --> 00:28:23,734
and dove into the pages that
mark the end of Captain America.

482
00:28:23,736 --> 00:28:28,172
It begs the question about
Captain America's death. Why now?

483
00:28:28,174 --> 00:28:29,440
When Captain America was shot,

484
00:28:29,442 --> 00:28:33,143
it was, to me, the iconic moment
of "Civil War."

485
00:28:33,145 --> 00:28:37,948
It felt like that loss of innocence
that the nation went through on 9/11,

486
00:28:37,950 --> 00:28:41,860
embodied in a character
that embodied America.

487
00:28:43,154 --> 00:28:47,458
It was a statement about
how hope was beginning to fade,

488
00:28:47,460 --> 00:28:49,827
that we were shooting ourselves
in the foot,

489
00:28:49,829 --> 00:28:53,230
that American patriotism and ideals,

490
00:28:53,232 --> 00:28:56,500
the very embodiment of
sort of September the 12th,

491
00:28:56,502 --> 00:28:58,502
where people came together
in New York City,

492
00:28:58,504 --> 00:29:01,004
had just been shot through the heart.

493
00:29:01,006 --> 00:29:03,040
Civil War became
a huge comic storyline

494
00:29:03,042 --> 00:29:05,513
because it was...
it was of its time.

495
00:29:05,548 --> 00:29:09,580
It was the biggest thing that's
ever happened to superheroes.

496
00:29:10,348 --> 00:29:11,982
It's no coincidence

497
00:29:11,984 --> 00:29:15,252
that Marvel's Civil War
is the phenomenon that it is.

498
00:29:15,254 --> 00:29:19,757
This is a story fundamentally
about this existential fear of terror.

499
00:29:19,759 --> 00:29:22,259
This has to do with
these external threats,

500
00:29:22,261 --> 00:29:26,130
and what we are willing to do
as citizens to cope with them.

501
00:29:26,132 --> 00:29:28,832
Having the story set in New York

502
00:29:28,834 --> 00:29:30,868
helped people
wrap their arms around

503
00:29:30,870 --> 00:29:34,471
how they can be change agents
in their own life.

504
00:29:34,473 --> 00:29:38,175
Whether it's 9/11
or the Patriot Act,

505
00:29:38,177 --> 00:29:40,811
I think that's all fair game
in comic books,

506
00:29:40,813 --> 00:29:42,980
and all sort of ripe material

507
00:29:42,982 --> 00:29:48,120
for comic book filmmakers
like Chris Nolan to draw from.

508
00:29:54,025 --> 00:29:58,195
Before 9/11, New York
was this kind of city of dreams

509
00:29:58,197 --> 00:30:01,031
that people from all over
the world were going to,

510
00:30:01,033 --> 00:30:06,870
but after 9/11, it was a city that
wasn't quite so wondrous anymore.

511
00:30:06,872 --> 00:30:09,206
It was March 6, 2008,

512
00:30:09,208 --> 00:30:13,076
and the military recruiting center
in Times Square was the target.

513
00:30:13,078 --> 00:30:16,513
In Times Square today, the FBI put
up a billboard asking for tips.

514
00:30:16,515 --> 00:30:18,081
Similar postings are going up

515
00:30:18,083 --> 00:30:20,640
in New Jersey, Connecticut,
and Pennsylvania.

516
00:30:20,675 --> 00:30:23,086
When we were working
on a story for The Dark Knight,

517
00:30:23,088 --> 00:30:25,856
Chris and I talked a lot
about New York,

518
00:30:25,858 --> 00:30:29,226
because everyone always
substituted Gotham for New York.

519
00:30:29,228 --> 00:30:32,262
The version of New York
that was in The Dark Knight trilogy

520
00:30:32,264 --> 00:30:36,233
is kind of being, if things
just kept that downward spiral,

521
00:30:36,235 --> 00:30:38,402
what would New York become?

522
00:30:38,404 --> 00:30:41,605
This is the week the world actually
gets to see The Dark Knight,

523
00:30:41,607 --> 00:30:44,908
one of the most highly
anticipated pictures of 2008.

524
00:30:44,910 --> 00:30:47,177
The film's a follow-up to
director Christopher Nolan's

525
00:30:47,179 --> 00:30:49,513
Batman Begins, which I admired,

526
00:30:49,515 --> 00:30:51,615
but The Dark Knight
paints a dizzying portrait

527
00:30:51,617 --> 00:30:55,230
of Gotham City nearing total anarchy.

528
00:30:56,187 --> 00:30:59,430
There have been many different
interpretations of Batman.

529
00:31:00,124 --> 00:31:02,932
Tim Burton's Batman,
wonderful movie,

530
00:31:02,967 --> 00:31:06,563
but there's a choice made
to set it in a time and place.

531
00:31:06,565 --> 00:31:09,366
You had the Jack Nicholson Joker,
larger than life.

532
00:31:09,368 --> 00:31:11,906
There was the campiness of Batman...

533
00:31:12,404 --> 00:31:16,173
We felt that the Burton Batman,

534
00:31:16,175 --> 00:31:19,943
as wonderful as they were,
they were kind of out of lockstep

535
00:31:19,945 --> 00:31:23,146
with where the public psyche
was at the time,

536
00:31:23,148 --> 00:31:25,883
especially in and around
New York City.

537
00:31:25,885 --> 00:31:29,754
We were reading
secondary terrorist attacks

538
00:31:29,755 --> 00:31:31,521
in New York City, and saying,

539
00:31:31,523 --> 00:31:34,291
"Okay, how can we take
a page from reality

540
00:31:34,293 --> 00:31:36,593
and bring it into
this fictionalized world?"

541
00:31:36,595 --> 00:31:42,232
It's not enough to have
a super-villain rob a big bank.

542
00:31:42,234 --> 00:31:44,568
If we're going to delve into this,

543
00:31:44,570 --> 00:31:47,404
then the villains
need to become truly villainous,

544
00:31:47,406 --> 00:31:53,043
and the way that you become villainous
is that you terrorize people.

545
00:31:53,045 --> 00:31:56,580
9/11 changed the perspective

546
00:31:56,582 --> 00:31:59,692
and the attitude towards the material.

547
00:31:59,727 --> 00:32:01,218
When you think about that event,

548
00:32:01,220 --> 00:32:05,622
and you think about
how massive that was for...

549
00:32:05,624 --> 00:32:09,393
for everyone, Americans and
people around the world alike,

550
00:32:09,395 --> 00:32:14,200
it's not something that you just
take out of your thinking.

551
00:32:14,666 --> 00:32:17,701
In The Dark Knight,
you are presented the Joker,

552
00:32:17,703 --> 00:32:20,604
who is a different Joker
than we've ever seen before.

553
00:32:23,207 --> 00:32:25,475
All you care about is money.

554
00:32:25,477 --> 00:32:29,488
This town deserves
a better class of criminal.

555
00:32:30,481 --> 00:32:34,718
Heath Ledger's Joker,
he really embodied a terrorist

556
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,388
that nihilistically wanted
to destroy New York City

557
00:32:38,390 --> 00:32:41,024
because he hates
what it represents,

558
00:32:41,026 --> 00:32:46,214
and there's a certain feeling
that that's what happened in 9/11.

559
00:32:46,249 --> 00:32:50,000
Terrorism, it's rooted in a philosophy,

560
00:32:50,002 --> 00:32:52,436
a particular interpretation of religion

561
00:32:52,438 --> 00:32:57,646
that seems extremely, uh...
alien to us.

562
00:32:58,276 --> 00:33:02,713
Terrorists had a...
a mission, if you will,

563
00:33:02,715 --> 00:33:07,684
to fulfill with organized,
if you will, mayhem

564
00:33:07,686 --> 00:33:12,990
here in New York City
the same way the Joker did as well.

565
00:33:12,992 --> 00:33:15,726
When we were
reconceiving of the Joker,

566
00:33:15,728 --> 00:33:19,096
we talked about the kind of tactics
that the insurgents were using,

567
00:33:19,098 --> 00:33:22,265
the way that they would,
you know, kidnap people

568
00:33:22,267 --> 00:33:27,604
and execute them, and...
and terrorize.

569
00:33:27,606 --> 00:33:30,507
How do you deal
with terrorism?

570
00:33:30,509 --> 00:33:34,111
In some ways, the hero
becomes the anti-hero

571
00:33:34,113 --> 00:33:37,314
who's willing to throw away
his or her own moral code,

572
00:33:37,316 --> 00:33:41,179
get down to the level of the villain,
in order to prevail.

573
00:33:41,214 --> 00:33:45,000
Well, that is 180 degrees
from the lesson of...

574
00:33:45,035 --> 00:33:47,457
lessons of comic books for 30 years.

575
00:33:47,459 --> 00:33:50,660
A strong part of, you know,
Chris's theme in those movies

576
00:33:50,662 --> 00:33:54,264
was the... the blurring of the
lines between good and evil,

577
00:33:54,266 --> 00:33:58,268
um, and, uh,
Batman takes this, uh, step

578
00:33:58,270 --> 00:34:01,638
into a... a darker, uh,
ethical and moral world.

579
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,374
That was a moment in which you
had the first revelations

580
00:34:04,376 --> 00:34:08,545
about the warrantless wiretapping
that they were doing,

581
00:34:08,547 --> 00:34:11,281
and it was something
that I was fascinated by.

582
00:34:11,283 --> 00:34:14,785
You've turned every cell phone
in Gotham into a microphone.

583
00:34:14,787 --> 00:34:20,390
- I've got to find this man, Lucius.
- At what cost?

584
00:34:20,392 --> 00:34:23,193
The story
of what he's willing to do

585
00:34:23,195 --> 00:34:26,530
to stop something terrible
from happening,

586
00:34:26,532 --> 00:34:28,565
for me, takes on
much more dimension.

587
00:34:28,567 --> 00:34:33,503
It's got much more grit to it, because
he's willing to go a little too far.

588
00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:37,240
One of the questions that
we were constantly trying

589
00:34:37,242 --> 00:34:40,510
to subtly posit
to the audience is, you know,

590
00:34:40,512 --> 00:34:45,182
are the methods he's employing
actually making things better?

591
00:34:45,184 --> 00:34:47,818
We were trying to draw
those kinds of analogies

592
00:34:47,820 --> 00:34:51,201
into the superhero world.

593
00:34:51,389 --> 00:34:54,424
We have this duality
in our personalities,

594
00:34:54,426 --> 00:34:56,860
and we have the dark side
and light side,

595
00:34:56,862 --> 00:34:59,496
and sometimes we think
we need to go to the dark side

596
00:34:59,498 --> 00:35:02,699
to solve the problems and the issues.

597
00:35:02,701 --> 00:35:06,470
Harvey Dent has a line in
The Dark Knight, which is...

598
00:35:06,472 --> 00:35:07,884
You either die a hero,

599
00:35:07,885 --> 00:35:11,653
or you live long enough to see
yourself become the villain.

600
00:35:11,776 --> 00:35:14,444
The longer the...
the fight goes on,

601
00:35:14,446 --> 00:35:16,546
the more likely
that something in your soul

602
00:35:16,548 --> 00:35:18,348
gets a little compromised,

603
00:35:18,350 --> 00:35:20,784
and you find yourself
on the other side of it.

604
00:35:22,153 --> 00:35:24,454
We wanted to take the film
to the nightmarish version

605
00:35:24,456 --> 00:35:27,624
of what if the villain's plot,

606
00:35:27,626 --> 00:35:30,827
which is always foiled
in every comic book movie,

607
00:35:30,829 --> 00:35:32,462
what if it wasn't?

608
00:35:32,464 --> 00:35:36,133
Right? What happens in the
fallout from that event?

609
00:35:36,767 --> 00:35:39,336
Every event since the attacks

610
00:35:39,338 --> 00:35:41,738
has shaped the way
that comic books work,

611
00:35:41,740 --> 00:35:43,840
the way that characters
interact with each other,

612
00:35:43,842 --> 00:35:45,909
the issues they're concerned about.

613
00:35:45,911 --> 00:35:50,881
9/11 changed New York
City like we've never seen before.

614
00:35:50,883 --> 00:35:56,853
9/11 didn't just change facts,
9/11 changed fiction.

615
00:36:05,329 --> 00:36:08,865
You have this sense that
New York is the natural place

616
00:36:08,867 --> 00:36:12,736
for these superhero films to play out,

617
00:36:12,738 --> 00:36:16,306
because comic books
kind of grew up with the city,

618
00:36:16,308 --> 00:36:20,717
and they feel inextricably
linked to one another.

619
00:36:21,479 --> 00:36:23,480
As New York has matured,

620
00:36:23,482 --> 00:36:26,573
superhero storytelling has
matured in an interesting way,

621
00:36:26,608 --> 00:36:31,314
and that is fueling
the movies of today.

622
00:36:31,423 --> 00:36:34,724
These characters aren't
just kind of bland, basic,

623
00:36:34,726 --> 00:36:39,214
you know, paper-thin people.
They've become so much

624
00:36:39,249 --> 00:36:41,301
more sophisticated, and that's,
you know, one of the reasons

625
00:36:41,336 --> 00:36:44,434
why they're just so successful
at the box office.

626
00:36:44,436 --> 00:36:47,302
The Avengers,
they absolutely crushed domestic

627
00:36:47,337 --> 00:36:51,775
box office records.
Over $200 million in ticket sales.

628
00:36:51,777 --> 00:36:56,846
We see in The Avengers
movie that heroes can also be

629
00:36:56,848 --> 00:37:00,034
not necessarily villains, but they
can be the source of destruction,

630
00:37:00,069 --> 00:37:02,752
and even as they're trying
to protect New York City,

631
00:37:02,754 --> 00:37:05,755
there can be this enormous
collateral damage,

632
00:37:05,757 --> 00:37:08,525
and instead of just coming back
in the next episode

633
00:37:08,527 --> 00:37:10,827
having forgotten that,
or starting over,

634
00:37:10,829 --> 00:37:14,764
these movies are dealing with the
complexity of that kind of reaction.

635
00:37:14,766 --> 00:37:17,801
They really try to treat destruction

636
00:37:17,803 --> 00:37:20,270
not as something fun to draw
and something to read,

637
00:37:20,272 --> 00:37:24,022
but something that causes real pain,
and because of that,

638
00:37:24,057 --> 00:37:26,543
the superheroes are more thoughtful,
they're more upset,

639
00:37:26,545 --> 00:37:28,778
they fail more often...

640
00:37:28,780 --> 00:37:34,391
and they're still talking about the
battle of New York in several sequels.

641
00:37:34,753 --> 00:37:37,721
We're looking for realism in fiction?

642
00:37:37,723 --> 00:37:41,358
Even though you're using it
as an escape from the real world,

643
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:42,993
you still kind of
want to be connected.

644
00:37:42,995 --> 00:37:47,932
9/11 and... the event
and things that happened

645
00:37:47,933 --> 00:37:51,968
after that in New York just
kind of made it almost impossible

646
00:37:51,970 --> 00:37:55,830
to not want to connect in that way.

647
00:37:57,308 --> 00:38:01,611
New York was always
synonymous with comic books,

648
00:38:01,613 --> 00:38:04,677
and so it's not surprising
to me that, to this day,

649
00:38:04,712 --> 00:38:07,784
New York continues to be
synonymous with Batman,

650
00:38:07,786 --> 00:38:09,586
the Avengers,

651
00:38:09,588 --> 00:38:11,321
Spider-Man,

652
00:38:11,323 --> 00:38:13,823
and the Daredevil TV show.

653
00:38:13,825 --> 00:38:16,826
...he told me you were
the man this city needs.

654
00:38:16,828 --> 00:38:20,462
I think you're also
the man this city created.

655
00:38:20,497 --> 00:38:22,240
When we were writing Daredevil,

656
00:38:22,275 --> 00:38:25,535
we were channeling the New York
of the early '80s, late '70s,

657
00:38:25,537 --> 00:38:27,704
when Frank Miller
was doing the stories.

658
00:38:27,706 --> 00:38:29,839
You felt like you were doing
something new,

659
00:38:29,841 --> 00:38:33,810
but that you could root
in their history.

660
00:38:33,812 --> 00:38:36,613
New York City
is its own character in comics,

661
00:38:36,615 --> 00:38:39,849
because it represents
the United States of America

662
00:38:39,851 --> 00:38:43,320
in a very material way.
It represents so many things.

663
00:38:43,322 --> 00:38:46,923
It represents hope,
and that's what comics represent.

664
00:38:46,925 --> 00:38:50,960
One World Trade Center
will officially open to the public today,

665
00:38:50,962 --> 00:38:53,245
bringing back a view
that has not been seen

666
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,800
since the attacks
on the Twin Towers years ago.

667
00:38:56,802 --> 00:39:01,104
The operators say they wanted it
to be a place of hope and courage.

668
00:39:01,106 --> 00:39:04,974
It's a beautiful thing, man,
and even post-September 11th,

669
00:39:04,976 --> 00:39:09,212
comics found a way to address
the worst thing that ever happened,

670
00:39:09,347 --> 00:39:12,082
and do it with their characters,
do it with respect,

671
00:39:12,084 --> 00:39:15,435
honor New York,
mark the moment,

672
00:39:15,470 --> 00:39:19,057
and allow us all to kind of
pick up and move on after that.

673
00:39:32,136 --> 00:39:34,471
When you look around now

674
00:39:34,473 --> 00:39:39,576
in New York City,
the superhero is everywhere...

675
00:39:39,578 --> 00:39:42,779
In the same way that in Rome,

676
00:39:42,781 --> 00:39:45,014
the Roman gods were everywhere,

677
00:39:45,016 --> 00:39:48,252
and the Roman gods were
everywhere doing the things

678
00:39:48,253 --> 00:39:52,088
that gods do
to teach lessons for people,

679
00:39:52,090 --> 00:39:54,424
to teach lessons for mortals,

680
00:39:54,426 --> 00:39:58,661
and, increasingly, the superhero
has been playing that role,

681
00:39:58,663 --> 00:40:01,164
and they certainly did after 9/11.

682
00:40:01,732 --> 00:40:08,305
It's a forum that deals
with high philosophy, virtue.

683
00:40:08,407 --> 00:40:10,898
What is virtue?
What is good?

684
00:40:11,025 --> 00:40:13,176
Who is good?
What is my duty?

685
00:40:13,178 --> 00:40:17,013
What is right and what is wrong?

686
00:40:19,049 --> 00:40:22,152
It's something that helps
bring us together

687
00:40:22,154 --> 00:40:25,422
as New Yorkers,
and as Americans,

688
00:40:25,424 --> 00:40:28,758
and as a bunch of people
with our inner nine-year-olds

689
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:30,527
still alive and well.

690
00:40:31,762 --> 00:40:36,666
New York is this city of heroes.
It's also a city of dreamers.

691
00:40:36,668 --> 00:40:42,606
That connectivity to the city,
and the place where

692
00:40:42,607 --> 00:40:47,544
all of this was dreamt up
is still very, very important.

693
00:40:47,546 --> 00:40:52,148
I think it'd be a shame if that...
if that ever went away.

694
00:40:52,150 --> 00:40:54,984
We all are
on this little island together,

695
00:40:54,986 --> 00:40:57,120
and we're in it together
and we're fighting together,

696
00:40:57,122 --> 00:40:59,222
and we're coexisting together.

697
00:40:59,224 --> 00:41:01,758
I really believe that this is a place

698
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:05,595
where, you know,
heroes are born.

699
00:41:05,597 --> 00:41:10,733
By setting the
superhero universe in New York,

700
00:41:10,735 --> 00:41:15,171
comics had enlarged the idea of
the city from what was already

701
00:41:15,173 --> 00:41:18,775
a very large idea
in the human consciousness.

702
00:41:18,777 --> 00:41:19,977
The city was no longer

703
00:41:19,978 --> 00:41:24,113
just the place that you went
to prove yourself.

704
00:41:24,115 --> 00:41:28,084
The city created all
kinds of aspiration.

705
00:41:28,086 --> 00:41:32,556
The city was a city of heroes.

706
00:41:32,858 --> 00:41:36,626
Really, that's the only place
a superhero can effectively belong.

707
00:41:46,971 --> 00:41:52,040
sync & correction by f1nc0
~ Addic7ed.com ~