1 00:00:00,001 --> 00:00:01,390 We have a match. 2 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:03,238 Your DNA is on the sweatshirt. 3 00:00:03,248 --> 00:00:04,988 Was it you that attacked Mr Cooper that night? 4 00:00:05,013 --> 00:00:05,967 No comment. 5 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:07,880 You want me to lie for you. 6 00:00:07,890 --> 00:00:12,542 Just say you don't remember anything that happened that night. 7 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:14,883 - We're done. - No. 8 00:00:15,826 --> 00:00:18,775 After I passed them, I heard splash. 9 00:00:18,785 --> 00:00:19,789 Anything else? 10 00:00:19,799 --> 00:00:22,318 How about if I check my diary? 11 00:00:22,328 --> 00:00:24,522 Can we get the luminol in here, please? 12 00:00:24,532 --> 00:00:28,279 The blood on Melinda Ricci's jacket, it belonged to Gerard Cooper. 13 00:00:28,289 --> 00:00:30,533 You're under arrest on suspicion of murder. 14 00:00:31,817 --> 00:00:33,167 I didn't do it. 15 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,000 *CREDITS* 16 00:01:58,000 --> 00:01:59,701 What are you doing, Marty? 17 00:02:04,807 --> 00:02:06,376 Whoops-a-daisy. 18 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,815 So can you stop harassing me and my daughter now? 19 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:22,775 No-one's been harassing you, Juliet. 20 00:02:22,785 --> 00:02:25,050 You went behind my back to my daughter's school. 21 00:02:25,060 --> 00:02:27,612 Yesterday, I had to tell her you might be interrogating her. 22 00:02:27,622 --> 00:02:29,049 We wanted a brief chat. 23 00:02:29,059 --> 00:02:31,105 That is your suspect. 24 00:02:31,666 --> 00:02:35,753 A man who's twice come to our home equipped to do us violence. 25 00:02:36,132 --> 00:02:37,526 It's not a very big leap, is it, 26 00:02:37,536 --> 00:02:40,020 to work out that he probably killed Gerry, too? 27 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:43,268 Come on. 28 00:02:44,308 --> 00:02:45,327 How's my mum? 29 00:02:45,337 --> 00:02:47,306 I need to remind you you're still under caution, Marty. 30 00:02:47,316 --> 00:02:48,843 Did she die? 31 00:02:50,356 --> 00:02:51,336 No. 32 00:02:52,459 --> 00:02:54,802 But she's very poorly, I'm afraid. 33 00:02:56,848 --> 00:02:59,291 Oh, Mum. 34 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:09,556 Yes, that's my jacket. 35 00:03:09,740 --> 00:03:13,082 Are you able to explain why Mr Cooper's blood is on it? 36 00:03:14,499 --> 00:03:16,319 Because he did hit me. 37 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,432 And on that occasion, I hit him back. 38 00:03:21,733 --> 00:03:23,649 - And where was this? - My flat. 39 00:03:24,253 --> 00:03:27,009 - When? - February 12th, my birthday. 40 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:28,947 You were seeing each other at this point? 41 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,721 - That was the night we split up. - Your birthday? 42 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,320 - Oh, yeah. - Because? 43 00:03:36,112 --> 00:03:37,500 It's a long story. 44 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:45,304 Here all day. 45 00:03:49,733 --> 00:03:53,573 So, I got pregnant by him in June 2020. 46 00:03:56,269 --> 00:03:59,073 But at that stage of my life, having a child 47 00:03:59,239 --> 00:04:01,079 was just not something I could contemplate... 48 00:04:03,653 --> 00:04:06,475 so I had a termination. 49 00:04:07,454 --> 00:04:09,356 - And that night, he came round... - I'm sorry. 50 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,277 Father Ryan told me that you actually had the baby 51 00:04:12,287 --> 00:04:13,912 and gave it up for adoption? 52 00:04:14,417 --> 00:04:17,960 That's an interesting interpretation of confessional privilege. 53 00:04:19,666 --> 00:04:21,613 Yes, I told Father Ryan that. 54 00:04:21,623 --> 00:04:24,434 Because when I said I'd got pregnant by a married man, 55 00:04:25,124 --> 00:04:26,973 he slightly shat the bed. 56 00:04:27,402 --> 00:04:29,709 I mean, from everything that I've read of yours, 57 00:04:30,207 --> 00:04:33,357 from watching some of your stuff on BNC, 58 00:04:33,367 --> 00:04:36,077 you're a pretty staunch pro-lifer, aren't you? 59 00:04:38,771 --> 00:04:41,127 I think that terminating a potential life 60 00:04:41,137 --> 00:04:43,375 is a desperately sad thing to do. 61 00:04:45,713 --> 00:04:47,919 But bringing a child into the world... 62 00:04:48,537 --> 00:04:51,713 especially now, that you don't want... 63 00:04:52,688 --> 00:04:55,205 that you don't feel that you can give the best life to... 64 00:04:55,780 --> 00:04:57,520 is so much more sad... 65 00:04:59,125 --> 00:05:00,497 is how I feel. 66 00:05:03,087 --> 00:05:06,546 And I profoundly regret not saying that out loud before now. 67 00:05:06,819 --> 00:05:09,410 I think it's fair to say that I'm the worst kind of hypocrite. 68 00:05:10,877 --> 00:05:13,200 And when was it, the termination? 69 00:05:17,713 --> 00:05:18,753 Um... 70 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:22,320 July. 71 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:25,799 And Cooper knew about it? 72 00:05:26,445 --> 00:05:27,965 Yes, unfortunately. 73 00:05:28,366 --> 00:05:29,913 Why "unfortunately"? 74 00:05:31,346 --> 00:05:34,566 Um, so on... on February 12th, 75 00:05:35,686 --> 00:05:38,853 uh, Gerry called me and said that he wanted to come round 76 00:05:39,509 --> 00:05:41,093 to give me something. 77 00:05:41,502 --> 00:05:46,001 And idiot me, I still thought that it was a present, but, um... 78 00:05:46,585 --> 00:05:50,330 actually, it was a demand that I lend him 30 grand. 79 00:05:52,295 --> 00:05:54,582 I presume then, by this stage, he knew that 80 00:05:54,592 --> 00:05:56,405 you'd been offered a contract by BNC? 81 00:05:56,430 --> 00:05:57,275 Yes. 82 00:05:57,300 --> 00:05:58,504 And what did you say? 83 00:05:58,514 --> 00:06:00,453 No, of course. 84 00:06:00,478 --> 00:06:02,756 - Did you have that amount of money? - No. 85 00:06:04,366 --> 00:06:06,188 I mean, I had a few thousand saved up, 86 00:06:06,198 --> 00:06:07,991 but nothing near that amount. 87 00:06:08,016 --> 00:06:09,746 And what did he say when you said no? 88 00:06:09,756 --> 00:06:13,810 He would tell BNC and every newspaper I'd ever worked for 89 00:06:14,252 --> 00:06:16,859 that this pro-lifer, devout Catholic, 90 00:06:16,869 --> 00:06:18,607 had broken lockdown rules, 91 00:06:18,617 --> 00:06:22,343 had an affair with a married man, and had an abortion. 92 00:06:23,495 --> 00:06:25,284 And I told him he was evil. 93 00:06:26,632 --> 00:06:28,816 And he punched me in the face. 94 00:06:30,509 --> 00:06:33,395 And I hit him round the head with a carving of a duck, 95 00:06:33,689 --> 00:06:34,847 hence the blood. 96 00:06:35,050 --> 00:06:36,721 And then I fled my flat. 97 00:06:39,091 --> 00:06:41,185 And I didn't return until about three hours later, 98 00:06:41,195 --> 00:06:44,739 this time with a male friend, but by that time, he'd... he'd gone. 99 00:06:44,764 --> 00:06:47,258 - And will your friend testify to that? - Mm. 100 00:06:47,459 --> 00:06:50,648 Yeah, I spoke to him yesterday. I'll give you his details. 101 00:06:51,979 --> 00:06:55,584 Did Cooper ever act on any of his threats? 102 00:06:55,594 --> 00:06:57,238 Not that I'm aware of, no... 103 00:06:57,681 --> 00:07:00,633 but by the time it... it'd come closer to me leaving, 104 00:07:00,643 --> 00:07:02,636 he'd lowered the amount to 5K, 105 00:07:02,976 --> 00:07:04,609 and just to get him off my back, 106 00:07:04,619 --> 00:07:07,621 I agreed to meet him and make him a transfer. 107 00:07:07,951 --> 00:07:10,206 That was on the 24th of February, 108 00:07:10,216 --> 00:07:12,403 and obviously, he... he never showed. 109 00:07:12,976 --> 00:07:15,969 And then I found out from a mutual friend that he'd disappeared. 110 00:07:16,461 --> 00:07:19,207 And given everything that had gone on between us, I just.. 111 00:07:19,706 --> 00:07:22,258 I just wanted to get out of London as quickly as possible. 112 00:07:23,603 --> 00:07:24,976 I'll ask you again, 113 00:07:25,113 --> 00:07:27,705 did you ever liaise with Juliet Cooper? 114 00:07:29,951 --> 00:07:31,951 Yes, I spoke to her once. 115 00:07:32,145 --> 00:07:34,306 She must have got my number from his phone, and she... 116 00:07:34,316 --> 00:07:37,607 she rang me, it was about a year before he disappeared. 117 00:07:38,016 --> 00:07:40,659 And she was very unpleasant. 118 00:07:41,644 --> 00:07:44,433 She said that she would fuck my life up. 119 00:07:45,355 --> 00:07:47,998 But I never... I never met her in person. 120 00:08:05,723 --> 00:08:07,558 - Mrs Dowari? - Yes. 121 00:08:07,583 --> 00:08:10,023 DS Boulting, Bishop Street Police Station. 122 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,649 I wonder if you could spare me five minutes for a quick chat? 123 00:08:15,037 --> 00:08:18,991 - Would she return here voluntarily? - Well, she said an emphatic "no". 124 00:08:19,445 --> 00:08:22,718 And given any extradition will take many weeks, I'm heading back. 125 00:08:22,728 --> 00:08:26,048 Well, they've also been some interesting developments here. 126 00:08:26,300 --> 00:08:28,272 Yeah? What's happening? 127 00:08:28,769 --> 00:08:32,181 Almost immediately, it was clear it wasn't habitable. 128 00:08:32,464 --> 00:08:34,865 Damp started to appear in both bedrooms, 129 00:08:34,875 --> 00:08:39,261 and the children started to cough and have permanent colds. 130 00:08:40,189 --> 00:08:44,324 And you feel bad, complaining, because... 131 00:08:44,334 --> 00:08:47,156 we were immigrants and we had not yet... 132 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,808 had the opportunity to give back to this wonderful country. 133 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,577 But Asif was brilliant and told us 134 00:08:54,587 --> 00:08:57,929 our children have a right to live safely. 135 00:08:58,500 --> 00:09:00,856 He was only our interpreter, 136 00:09:00,866 --> 00:09:03,621 but he fought so hard for us with Mr Cooper. 137 00:09:04,531 --> 00:09:07,739 Except every time Mr Cooper said he'd fix the damp, 138 00:09:07,749 --> 00:09:10,463 all he ever really did was paint over it. 139 00:09:11,214 --> 00:09:13,774 And so our son Jamal got sicker and sicker. 140 00:09:13,784 --> 00:09:16,452 Sorry, how old was Jamal at this point? 141 00:09:17,422 --> 00:09:20,909 18 months when we moved in, in September 2020. 142 00:09:20,919 --> 00:09:23,238 Thank you. Please go on. 143 00:09:23,831 --> 00:09:27,416 So he was really poorly with a lung infection... 144 00:09:28,445 --> 00:09:31,138 and then in late January 2021, 145 00:09:31,148 --> 00:09:34,531 he was actually admitted to hospital because of his breathing. 146 00:09:34,541 --> 00:09:36,806 And how long was your son in hospital? 147 00:09:37,706 --> 00:09:40,252 Two weeks and five days. 148 00:09:41,089 --> 00:09:44,203 And then he came home to your new place? 149 00:09:44,680 --> 00:09:45,976 How do you mean? 150 00:09:46,126 --> 00:09:48,756 When he recovered, he came home to your new place? 151 00:09:49,451 --> 00:09:51,823 Jamal never came home. 152 00:09:53,263 --> 00:09:54,558 Right. 153 00:09:55,827 --> 00:09:59,045 Sorry, so where did he go? 154 00:10:00,776 --> 00:10:02,183 Jamal died. 155 00:10:03,650 --> 00:10:06,715 - Oh, Mrs Dowari. - Sorry, I thought you knew. 156 00:10:06,725 --> 00:10:11,133 He had an acute fungal infection in his lungs from the damp, 157 00:10:11,976 --> 00:10:15,859 and he died on the 22nd of February, 2021. 158 00:10:15,869 --> 00:10:18,191 Two days before his second birthday. 159 00:10:19,276 --> 00:10:22,778 - I'm so, so sorry. May Allah comfort you. - Thank you. 160 00:10:22,788 --> 00:10:25,557 Do you mind if I just ask one last question. Please? 161 00:10:25,567 --> 00:10:26,453 Of course. 162 00:10:26,463 --> 00:10:29,723 I presume that Asif wasn't interpreting for you any more, 163 00:10:29,733 --> 00:10:31,642 - in your new place? - No. 164 00:10:31,652 --> 00:10:33,316 But you kept in contact with each other? 165 00:10:33,326 --> 00:10:35,979 Very much so, he had become a valued friend. 166 00:10:35,989 --> 00:10:38,852 And I'm assuming that he knew about your son's death? 167 00:10:39,176 --> 00:10:43,029 After our family, he was the first person we told. 168 00:11:17,578 --> 00:11:20,918 OK, so, obviously, we need to speak to Asif again. 169 00:11:20,943 --> 00:11:23,167 Yeah. The timing's just too coincidental, isn't it? 170 00:11:23,192 --> 00:11:24,283 Agreed. 171 00:11:24,433 --> 00:11:26,614 - Fran? - We have triangulation. 172 00:11:26,624 --> 00:11:27,826 Excellent! 173 00:11:27,836 --> 00:11:31,526 OK, so, if you look on the 22nd, that's the Monday, 174 00:11:31,536 --> 00:11:33,248 data puts Cooper in Brighton, 175 00:11:33,273 --> 00:11:34,966 which checks out with his desk diary, 176 00:11:34,976 --> 00:11:36,287 he was meeting snack suppliers. 177 00:11:36,297 --> 00:11:38,074 - Yeah. - Then back in Bow, in the evening, 178 00:11:38,099 --> 00:11:39,629 where he calls a local takeaway. 179 00:11:39,639 --> 00:11:40,962 Yes, got that. 180 00:11:40,972 --> 00:11:44,822 Then the 23rd, he seems to spend most of the day in Bow, 181 00:11:44,832 --> 00:11:47,130 presumably working in or above the pub. 182 00:11:47,140 --> 00:11:49,453 OK. Or at least his phone spent most of the day in Bow. 183 00:11:49,463 --> 00:11:50,695 Well, yeah. 184 00:11:51,307 --> 00:11:54,229 But 13:37 on the 24th, 185 00:11:54,239 --> 00:11:56,728 he makes the call to the brewery woman to cancel 186 00:11:56,738 --> 00:12:00,511 the four o'clock meeting, and that call is made in Ilford. 187 00:12:00,738 --> 00:12:02,270 Where was Marty Baines' flat? 188 00:12:02,295 --> 00:12:03,611 - Ilford. - OK. 189 00:12:03,636 --> 00:12:05,826 So on the day he is reported missing, 190 00:12:05,851 --> 00:12:08,576 we have Cooper maybe meeting Marty Baines. 191 00:12:08,586 --> 00:12:09,291 Maybe. 192 00:12:09,301 --> 00:12:11,043 And did you actually speak to the brewery person 193 00:12:11,053 --> 00:12:12,594 - who got the voicemail? - Yes. 194 00:12:12,604 --> 00:12:14,423 She said it was definitely Cooper. 195 00:12:14,433 --> 00:12:16,570 OK. So we know he's alive on the 24th. 196 00:12:16,580 --> 00:12:18,813 Well, yeah, probably. 197 00:12:19,092 --> 00:12:20,416 How do you mean? 198 00:12:20,561 --> 00:12:22,274 There's just this weird thing. 199 00:12:22,501 --> 00:12:25,312 With the voicemail he left her, she said he called her "babe". 200 00:12:25,322 --> 00:12:26,082 Babe? 201 00:12:26,155 --> 00:12:28,424 She said the message was something like, um, 202 00:12:28,762 --> 00:12:31,524 "Sorry, babe, can't make today now, I'll call you." 203 00:12:31,534 --> 00:12:34,966 OK. And do we definitely know that they were just work colleagues? 204 00:12:34,976 --> 00:12:36,539 I mean, given what we do know about him. 205 00:12:36,549 --> 00:12:38,442 Oh, yeah. She said they were definitely just colleagues 206 00:12:38,452 --> 00:12:42,384 and that his language was inappropriate, so... 207 00:12:43,221 --> 00:12:44,379 I don't know. 208 00:12:44,663 --> 00:12:47,696 Something about the timing of all this is just off. 209 00:12:47,721 --> 00:12:49,707 The dodgy number plates, 210 00:12:50,006 --> 00:12:51,631 - this message... - Mm. 211 00:12:51,641 --> 00:12:53,287 - something... - Yeah. 212 00:12:53,445 --> 00:12:55,171 One to ponder. 213 00:12:56,062 --> 00:12:58,490 Uh... OK, listen, thanks, guys. 214 00:13:03,942 --> 00:13:05,771 - Hey. - Hi, love. Hi. 215 00:13:05,781 --> 00:13:08,060 Um, Steve's been here, he took his stuff. 216 00:13:08,070 --> 00:13:10,581 - Yeah, I know, I said he could. - No... No, it's not that. 217 00:13:10,591 --> 00:13:13,212 It's not that, Jess, I'm just a bit worried about him. 218 00:13:13,222 --> 00:13:15,438 - He's saying some bad things. - What things? 219 00:13:15,448 --> 00:13:17,428 Like how he's messed up his whole life 220 00:13:17,438 --> 00:13:18,982 and he can't see a way forward. 221 00:13:18,992 --> 00:13:20,165 Is he still there? 222 00:13:20,175 --> 00:13:22,125 No, he left about ten minutes ago. 223 00:13:22,236 --> 00:13:24,661 - He's found a rental round the corner. - Where? 224 00:13:24,671 --> 00:13:26,459 Um, Larford Street. 225 00:13:26,469 --> 00:13:28,715 Jesus, that's literally the next fucking road. 226 00:13:28,725 --> 00:13:31,461 I mean... he wouldn't do anything silly, would he? 227 00:13:31,471 --> 00:13:33,831 He's not... He's not like that, is he? 228 00:13:33,841 --> 00:13:35,966 - He's not that sort of person? - No, look, uh, 229 00:13:35,976 --> 00:13:38,301 I'll call him, or I'll drop by on the way home. 230 00:13:38,326 --> 00:13:40,231 - What number was it again? - 25. 231 00:13:40,241 --> 00:13:42,497 Right, OK. Um, listen, Mum, I've gotta go. 232 00:13:42,507 --> 00:13:44,410 I'll talk to you later. OK. Thanks. Bye. 233 00:13:45,968 --> 00:13:47,719 So, how was it? 234 00:13:47,846 --> 00:13:49,513 I don't know if you're aware of this, 235 00:13:49,523 --> 00:13:50,827 but it rains a lot in Ireland? 236 00:13:50,837 --> 00:13:52,645 You're joking? I've never noticed! 237 00:13:53,971 --> 00:13:57,051 Listen, are you OK to go straight into an interview with Asif Syed? 238 00:13:57,076 --> 00:13:58,718 We've only got two hours left on the clock. 239 00:13:58,728 --> 00:13:59,723 Yeah. Let's go for it. 240 00:13:59,733 --> 00:14:01,980 And then it'll be straight into Marty Baines. 241 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,006 Murray sent you the Dowari statement, I think? 242 00:14:05,016 --> 00:14:07,332 He did, and I've got an idea on how to approach this. 243 00:14:07,342 --> 00:14:08,679 Great. Fire away. 244 00:14:09,552 --> 00:14:10,662 Since we last spoke, 245 00:14:10,672 --> 00:14:13,685 we have new information on the Dowari family. 246 00:14:14,675 --> 00:14:16,341 Do you remember Jamal Dowari? 247 00:14:18,305 --> 00:14:19,534 No comment. 248 00:14:20,574 --> 00:14:25,782 Well, according to his mum, Nahal, you absolutely adored him. 249 00:14:26,843 --> 00:14:29,508 You bought him a play mat for his first birthday, you... 250 00:14:30,252 --> 00:14:33,297 baby-sat him on numerous occasions... 251 00:14:33,700 --> 00:14:35,073 do you remember that? 252 00:14:36,599 --> 00:14:37,950 No comment. 253 00:14:38,656 --> 00:14:41,341 I'm sorry to bring this up because I can see you're getting upset, 254 00:14:41,351 --> 00:14:42,678 but do you remember... 255 00:14:43,005 --> 00:14:45,039 what caused little Jamal's death? 256 00:14:47,198 --> 00:14:48,198 No comment. 257 00:14:48,223 --> 00:14:49,586 I think you do remember... 258 00:14:50,236 --> 00:14:51,516 because you were at the hospital, 259 00:14:51,526 --> 00:14:54,075 helping the Dowari family understand what was happening and 260 00:14:54,085 --> 00:14:55,836 speaking to the doctors, weren't you? 261 00:14:59,140 --> 00:15:00,147 No comment. 262 00:15:02,049 --> 00:15:04,430 You know he died of a fungal infection, 263 00:15:04,753 --> 00:15:06,648 almost certainly caused by the conditions 264 00:15:06,658 --> 00:15:08,125 in Gerard Cooper's flat. 265 00:15:10,752 --> 00:15:11,956 No comment. 266 00:15:12,466 --> 00:15:14,356 Do you remember the day he died, Asif? 267 00:15:14,366 --> 00:15:16,987 He died on the 22nd of February, 2021, 268 00:15:17,012 --> 00:15:20,014 just two days before his second birthday... 269 00:15:20,852 --> 00:15:24,294 and less than 48 hours before Gerard Cooper disappeared. 270 00:15:27,599 --> 00:15:29,968 So, listen, let me tell you where we are. 271 00:15:30,978 --> 00:15:33,817 I think you're in a bit of a... panic. 272 00:15:34,899 --> 00:15:38,532 I think you see your whole world collapsing, your citizenship, 273 00:15:38,542 --> 00:15:41,650 your relationship, your whole life in the UK. 274 00:15:41,660 --> 00:15:44,984 And the truth is, if you do remain silent, 275 00:15:45,009 --> 00:15:47,802 we would be obliged to seek the authority to charge you 276 00:15:47,812 --> 00:15:49,474 with the car park assault, 277 00:15:49,484 --> 00:15:53,154 despite us knowing that Gerard Cooper was a violent man 278 00:15:53,164 --> 00:15:56,135 you may well have had to defend yourself against. 279 00:15:56,145 --> 00:15:57,447 For your information, 280 00:15:57,457 --> 00:15:59,480 I've spoken to the police at Barnstable, 281 00:15:59,972 --> 00:16:03,120 and they will not be charging you with any immigration offences. 282 00:16:03,586 --> 00:16:05,963 Your partner has taken full responsibility for that. 283 00:16:06,410 --> 00:16:08,429 So we would love to be able to eliminate you 284 00:16:08,439 --> 00:16:10,145 from our enquiries as well. 285 00:16:10,370 --> 00:16:12,630 We suspect you're a good man, Asif, but... 286 00:16:14,685 --> 00:16:16,468 you need to help us here. 287 00:16:16,478 --> 00:16:18,349 Help us help you. 288 00:16:30,578 --> 00:16:32,254 A few weeks 289 00:16:32,775 --> 00:16:34,879 after Jamal first got sick, 290 00:16:35,123 --> 00:16:36,775 in December, I... 291 00:16:37,535 --> 00:16:41,598 I went to see Cooper at his pub doing a lunch for the homeless. 292 00:16:44,433 --> 00:16:45,811 And there he was... 293 00:16:47,518 --> 00:16:49,453 serving food and... 294 00:16:50,073 --> 00:16:52,680 handing out clothes and presents, and... 295 00:16:56,937 --> 00:16:58,398 he was brilliant. 296 00:17:00,371 --> 00:17:03,616 Kind, funny, generous and just... 297 00:17:04,861 --> 00:17:06,181 just lovely. 298 00:17:10,025 --> 00:17:12,665 Which is when I realised... 299 00:17:14,164 --> 00:17:16,376 he could be empathetic, 300 00:17:17,598 --> 00:17:20,594 he did have the capacity for compassion, he just... 301 00:17:22,627 --> 00:17:25,354 he just chose not to show it to us. 302 00:17:26,865 --> 00:17:30,162 Because he'd stopped seeing us... 303 00:17:31,419 --> 00:17:32,715 as human. 304 00:17:33,852 --> 00:17:36,532 We had "swarmed over" in our "hordes". 305 00:17:39,286 --> 00:17:41,989 He saw us as... vermin. 306 00:17:45,490 --> 00:17:47,774 The day Jamal got admitted, 307 00:17:47,799 --> 00:17:49,649 I went to see Cooper that night. 308 00:17:50,035 --> 00:17:52,719 I'd taken a... a photo of Jamal on a drip, 309 00:17:52,729 --> 00:17:55,063 and my intention was just to show him, 310 00:17:55,235 --> 00:17:58,440 to shame him, and naively, I thought maybe... 311 00:17:58,450 --> 00:18:00,123 maybe it would change him. 312 00:18:00,415 --> 00:18:04,557 His reaction at first was to intimidate me physically, 313 00:18:04,567 --> 00:18:07,065 pushing and shoving cos he was a bully. 314 00:18:07,075 --> 00:18:08,449 And when that didn't work, 315 00:18:08,459 --> 00:18:11,290 because why would it with someone like me, 316 00:18:12,182 --> 00:18:14,483 he actually tried to hit me. 317 00:18:14,863 --> 00:18:16,025 I mean, he was out of shape, 318 00:18:16,035 --> 00:18:18,523 and I put him down with two punches, but... 319 00:18:19,971 --> 00:18:21,608 that was it. 320 00:18:22,867 --> 00:18:27,518 I walked away leaving him groaning on the ground but very much alive. 321 00:18:55,788 --> 00:18:58,354 So what were you doing in Juliet Cooper's house, Marty? 322 00:18:58,364 --> 00:18:59,838 I wanted to speak to Taylor. 323 00:18:59,848 --> 00:19:01,869 Right. And what did you want to say to her? 324 00:19:01,879 --> 00:19:05,015 I wanted to offer her my sincere condolences for her loss. 325 00:19:05,025 --> 00:19:07,900 You broke into her house late at night to offer your condolences? 326 00:19:07,910 --> 00:19:09,160 Yes, I did. 327 00:19:10,438 --> 00:19:12,844 You had a screwdriver on you, Marty, in your bag 328 00:19:12,854 --> 00:19:15,044 and a hammer in your hand when we intercepted you. 329 00:19:15,054 --> 00:19:17,662 Marty Baines, lock-breaker extraordinaire. 330 00:19:17,672 --> 00:19:19,822 So you've broken into her home before, haven't you? 331 00:19:20,086 --> 00:19:22,050 - Uh, yes, I have. - Where was that? 332 00:19:22,060 --> 00:19:24,316 - Above the pub. - Why'd you do that? 333 00:19:25,614 --> 00:19:28,110 - To give her dad a right sorting out. - Marty. 334 00:19:28,120 --> 00:19:31,456 - You wanted to do violence to him? - Uh, yes, I did. 335 00:19:32,274 --> 00:19:33,936 Punch him on the hooter. 336 00:19:34,978 --> 00:19:35,926 OK. 337 00:19:36,398 --> 00:19:39,420 So we know that Taylor talked you out of doing anything that day, 338 00:19:39,430 --> 00:19:42,752 - but did you later change your mind? - No. I did not. 339 00:19:42,762 --> 00:19:45,380 At a later date, did you get angry again 340 00:19:45,390 --> 00:19:48,044 about what he did to you, and specifically to your dad, 341 00:19:48,054 --> 00:19:49,931 - and attack him? - No, I did not. 342 00:19:49,941 --> 00:19:52,413 - Did you kill him, Marty? - No man has the right 343 00:19:52,423 --> 00:19:54,739 to take another man's life, DI Sunil Khan. 344 00:20:00,235 --> 00:20:01,797 Can we talk to you about Ilford? 345 00:20:01,807 --> 00:20:04,108 - I lived in Ilford. - Yes, we know. 346 00:20:04,281 --> 00:20:06,565 We wanted to ask you about a particular day. 347 00:20:06,575 --> 00:20:07,898 - What day? - A day... 348 00:20:07,924 --> 00:20:10,855 we think that Gerry Cooper was in Ilford as well. 349 00:20:11,081 --> 00:20:13,228 In 2021, in February, 350 00:20:13,238 --> 00:20:15,858 we wanted ask you if you remember meeting him in Ilford? 351 00:20:15,868 --> 00:20:17,229 I never met him in Ilford. 352 00:20:17,239 --> 00:20:18,779 - Are you sure? - Yes, I'm sure. 353 00:20:18,789 --> 00:20:21,251 - He never came to your flat? - He never came to my flat. 354 00:20:21,261 --> 00:20:24,605 Cos we have a record of a phone call he made from Ilford 355 00:20:24,615 --> 00:20:27,240 on the day we think he might have disappeared. 356 00:20:27,250 --> 00:20:30,453 - What day is this? - The 24th of February, 2021. 357 00:20:30,463 --> 00:20:33,551 On the 24th of February, I had Coco Pops and tinned peaches 358 00:20:33,561 --> 00:20:36,241 for breakfast, watched Lorraine and Homes Under The Hammer, 359 00:20:36,251 --> 00:20:38,610 before walking to City Airport to watch for planes. 360 00:20:38,620 --> 00:20:40,833 I returned to my flat at 20:55 361 00:20:40,843 --> 00:20:43,474 in time for Kirstie and Phil on Love It Or List It. 362 00:20:45,156 --> 00:20:47,526 That's very detailed, Marty. 363 00:20:47,536 --> 00:20:50,061 Can I ask you why you have never told us this before? 364 00:20:50,071 --> 00:20:51,667 You never asked me. 365 00:20:55,817 --> 00:20:58,765 Out of interest, can I ask you what you did on the 23rd? 366 00:20:58,775 --> 00:21:01,776 On the 23rd of February, I had Coco Pops and tinned peaches 367 00:21:01,786 --> 00:21:04,386 for breakfast, watched Lorraine and Homes Under The Hammer, 368 00:21:04,396 --> 00:21:06,694 before walking to City Airport to watch for planes. 369 00:21:06,704 --> 00:21:11,338 I returned to my flat at 20:35 for The Real CSI at 21:00. 370 00:21:25,652 --> 00:21:28,774 I'd put good money on him being on that airport CCTV 371 00:21:28,784 --> 00:21:30,863 - exactly when he said he was. - Mm. 372 00:21:30,888 --> 00:21:31,979 Boss? 373 00:21:32,309 --> 00:21:34,098 The cyclist's daughter dropped his diary in. 374 00:21:34,123 --> 00:21:35,126 Oh, yeah? 375 00:21:35,389 --> 00:21:37,614 Like he said, it was 3:30 in the morning 376 00:21:37,624 --> 00:21:41,851 when he witnessed the disposal, but it was 3:30 on the 24th. 377 00:21:41,861 --> 00:21:43,061 No way. 378 00:21:43,071 --> 00:21:45,276 Which obviously begs a number of questions. 379 00:21:45,286 --> 00:21:48,165 - Yeah, just a few. - Yeah. The most obvious one of which... 380 00:21:48,722 --> 00:21:51,865 is how the hell does a man leave a voicemail on someone's phone... 381 00:21:52,687 --> 00:21:55,362 when his dismembered body had been thrown into the marsh 382 00:21:55,372 --> 00:21:56,896 ten hours before? 383 00:22:09,628 --> 00:22:11,025 So, these... 384 00:22:11,035 --> 00:22:13,841 according to DVLA, are the five number plates 385 00:22:13,851 --> 00:22:17,153 at the time of the murder of the cars of Asif Syed, 386 00:22:17,163 --> 00:22:20,844 Melinda Ricci, Marty Baines's dad, Gerry Cooper and Juliet Cooper. 387 00:22:20,854 --> 00:22:23,965 All pretty anonymous saloons. And this... 388 00:22:26,228 --> 00:22:27,826 is our murder car. 389 00:22:28,174 --> 00:22:29,911 Now, it's possible, I guess, 390 00:22:29,936 --> 00:22:31,695 that the killer could've acquired fake plates, 391 00:22:31,705 --> 00:22:33,378 but that would have required a lot of prior planning, 392 00:22:33,388 --> 00:22:35,354 - suggests premeditation. - This wasn't premeditated. 393 00:22:35,364 --> 00:22:37,643 No. So my best guess is they altered their own plates 394 00:22:37,653 --> 00:22:39,510 with marker pen or tape or whatever. 395 00:22:39,817 --> 00:22:44,308 Changed an F to an E, a three or a six to an eight, etc. 396 00:22:44,318 --> 00:22:46,230 So basically, which of these five plates 397 00:22:46,255 --> 00:22:48,160 could most easily be changed to match that one? 398 00:22:48,185 --> 00:22:49,182 Exactly. 399 00:22:49,516 --> 00:22:51,394 So, who's good at Wordle? 400 00:22:52,213 --> 00:22:54,965 It's obviously not that one or that one. 401 00:22:55,034 --> 00:22:56,569 Can't be this one, either. 402 00:22:56,594 --> 00:22:58,822 - Yeah... - Well, two Fs can be Es. 403 00:22:58,832 --> 00:23:00,194 Yeah, and that P's gotta be that B. 404 00:23:00,204 --> 00:23:02,026 Yeah, so it's obviously this one, isn't it? 405 00:23:02,036 --> 00:23:05,609 The M stays the same, the C changes to an O. 406 00:23:05,619 --> 00:23:08,032 The five to a six. Seven stays the same. 407 00:23:08,042 --> 00:23:09,527 Two Es and a B. 408 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,439 So, whose car is that? 409 00:23:12,449 --> 00:23:15,408 That car belonged to... 410 00:23:19,062 --> 00:23:20,617 Juliet Cooper. 411 00:23:45,041 --> 00:23:46,794 - Hass? - Asif? 412 00:23:47,500 --> 00:23:49,000 _ 413 00:23:49,010 --> 00:23:51,910 _ 414 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,900 _ 415 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,000 _ 416 00:24:00,748 --> 00:24:02,134 That was the hospital. 417 00:24:02,384 --> 00:24:04,403 Marty's mum's recovered consciousness. 418 00:24:04,584 --> 00:24:06,069 And she just told a nurse 419 00:24:06,079 --> 00:24:07,909 that she stirred the pills into her own drink. 420 00:24:07,919 --> 00:24:11,239 - Why? - Said she felt a burden. 421 00:24:11,701 --> 00:24:15,035 Said she felt that he would get better help without her. 422 00:24:19,367 --> 00:24:21,777 Right, aside from the burglary dwelling, 423 00:24:21,837 --> 00:24:24,322 - let's release him NFA. - Yep. 424 00:24:24,468 --> 00:24:26,501 - He'll need to be with her. - Mm-hm. 425 00:24:26,526 --> 00:24:28,526 Has anyone seen DI Khan? 426 00:24:30,821 --> 00:24:32,401 I really like you. 427 00:24:33,615 --> 00:24:35,936 I always have, but you were taken. 428 00:24:37,300 --> 00:24:38,893 But over the last year or so, 429 00:24:38,903 --> 00:24:41,467 as we've got to know each other better, it's just... 430 00:24:42,776 --> 00:24:44,083 it's just been lovely. 431 00:24:45,111 --> 00:24:47,035 And then the other night happened. 432 00:24:47,045 --> 00:24:51,690 And then you rang and rang. And I... ran. 433 00:24:53,239 --> 00:24:55,291 As I always have, actually. 434 00:24:57,762 --> 00:24:59,596 So I'm just gonna say what I'm gonna say, 435 00:24:59,606 --> 00:25:02,918 and then if you don't mind, I'm gonna go back to work, and... 436 00:25:04,117 --> 00:25:06,866 you can absorb it without the pressure of me... 437 00:25:07,743 --> 00:25:08,925 looking at you? 438 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:11,919 You're not a serial killer, are you? 439 00:25:23,713 --> 00:25:28,179 24 years ago, I was in a relationship with a bloke, and... 440 00:25:29,081 --> 00:25:33,742 we'd been together three pretty unhappy years, and then... 441 00:25:35,084 --> 00:25:40,163 one day, I went out to get some fags and never came back. 442 00:25:41,643 --> 00:25:42,908 Which was... 443 00:25:43,438 --> 00:25:44,460 fine. 444 00:25:44,558 --> 00:25:46,016 Except... 445 00:25:48,961 --> 00:25:50,410 we had a daughter 446 00:25:51,235 --> 00:25:53,195 who I also left behind. 447 00:25:54,655 --> 00:25:56,570 And who, for many 448 00:25:56,785 --> 00:25:58,744 complicated reasons, I... 449 00:25:58,901 --> 00:26:00,196 haven't seen... 450 00:26:01,269 --> 00:26:02,376 since. 451 00:26:04,075 --> 00:26:05,780 Which is obviously quite a thing. 452 00:26:07,894 --> 00:26:09,674 That's what I thought you should know. 453 00:26:11,062 --> 00:26:12,970 And obviously, there were mental health issues 454 00:26:12,980 --> 00:26:14,341 and court cases and... 455 00:26:14,776 --> 00:26:16,433 lots and lots of pain... 456 00:26:16,443 --> 00:26:18,480 and I'm sure you have a million questions, 457 00:26:18,490 --> 00:26:19,746 but as I say, 458 00:26:19,956 --> 00:26:21,841 I'm gonna head back to work now, 459 00:26:22,270 --> 00:26:25,803 but I just wanted you to know that, and, um... 460 00:26:26,583 --> 00:26:27,583 and... 461 00:26:28,870 --> 00:26:30,012 yeah. 462 00:26:31,479 --> 00:26:32,943 Call me if you still... 463 00:26:33,657 --> 00:26:35,645 - Yeah. - Hey. Leanne... 464 00:26:51,075 --> 00:26:52,546 Jess. What's happening? 465 00:26:54,039 --> 00:26:55,461 The thing that tripped us up 466 00:26:55,471 --> 00:26:57,845 was the voice message left on the 24th. 467 00:26:59,090 --> 00:27:01,751 But I'm guessing that was an old message left for you, 468 00:27:01,778 --> 00:27:05,025 and you just replayed it into his phone mic, 469 00:27:05,035 --> 00:27:06,948 as you used HIS phone... 470 00:27:07,306 --> 00:27:08,900 to call the brewery colleague. 471 00:27:10,107 --> 00:27:12,781 Nice touch driving to Ilford to make the call, though. 472 00:27:12,806 --> 00:27:13,708 Mm. 473 00:27:14,305 --> 00:27:17,255 And when we track down your old car, 474 00:27:17,265 --> 00:27:20,442 I wonder if we'll find residue of the marker pen or gaffer tape 475 00:27:20,467 --> 00:27:22,297 you used on the number plate? 476 00:27:24,628 --> 00:27:27,298 No jury would ever convict on any of that. 477 00:27:27,648 --> 00:27:29,181 Oh, I don't know. 478 00:27:30,789 --> 00:27:33,248 But we'll also speak to your daughter. 479 00:27:34,131 --> 00:27:35,989 And I have a strong feeling 480 00:27:35,999 --> 00:27:38,811 that based on your intense desire for us not to 481 00:27:39,806 --> 00:27:41,857 that she saw something that night. 482 00:27:44,488 --> 00:27:45,442 Or... 483 00:27:46,122 --> 00:27:47,615 you can tell us what happened... 484 00:27:48,761 --> 00:27:52,523 and maybe... maybe we don't need to involve Taylor. 485 00:28:01,534 --> 00:28:02,889 I'll tell you. 486 00:28:13,638 --> 00:28:16,498 The marriage had been broken many years. 487 00:28:17,205 --> 00:28:20,997 He'd changed so much from the person I met in 2009. 488 00:28:21,946 --> 00:28:23,922 I guess we both changed. 489 00:28:25,500 --> 00:28:28,198 The further he lurched to the right, 490 00:28:28,223 --> 00:28:30,125 the more I'd provoke him... 491 00:28:30,358 --> 00:28:31,928 mostly deliberately. 492 00:28:32,372 --> 00:28:33,545 And end up... 493 00:28:34,491 --> 00:28:36,491 loathing him all afresh. 494 00:28:37,873 --> 00:28:40,233 - Why didn't you just separate? - Taylor. 495 00:28:40,511 --> 00:28:41,628 Our finances. 496 00:28:41,638 --> 00:28:45,119 The pandemic. Inertia. There were always reasons. 497 00:28:45,129 --> 00:28:46,678 Bad ones, but reasons. 498 00:28:47,704 --> 00:28:48,854 And so... 499 00:28:50,324 --> 00:28:51,414 how did it end? 500 00:28:55,917 --> 00:28:58,237 It was the night of the 22nd. 501 00:28:59,550 --> 00:29:00,928 I was cooking. 502 00:29:01,419 --> 00:29:03,065 Making stuff for the freezer. 503 00:29:03,434 --> 00:29:08,243 And... he got back late, after 11, drunk, and... 504 00:29:08,638 --> 00:29:11,057 told me he'd be out on the 24th. 505 00:29:12,757 --> 00:29:14,159 I reminded him... 506 00:29:14,390 --> 00:29:18,641 sarcastically that that was our wedding anniversary, and he... 507 00:29:20,124 --> 00:29:22,613 spewed out some misogyny or other, 508 00:29:22,638 --> 00:29:25,199 and we started to go at each other. 509 00:29:25,209 --> 00:29:28,248 Taylor was deep asleep upstairs, thank God. 510 00:29:29,228 --> 00:29:32,838 And as usual, when I bested him verbally, 511 00:29:33,054 --> 00:29:37,308 which I always did cos it turns out he was thick... 512 00:29:38,314 --> 00:29:40,290 he'd start getting physical, 513 00:29:40,813 --> 00:29:43,026 pushing me and grabbing my hair. 514 00:29:43,518 --> 00:29:47,916 So, I'd gone to the kitchen table to try to de-escalate things. 515 00:29:47,941 --> 00:29:50,641 I sat down to continue chopping and... 516 00:29:51,794 --> 00:29:55,385 without any warning, he punched the back of my head... 517 00:29:56,303 --> 00:29:57,672 really hard. 518 00:29:58,335 --> 00:29:59,685 And it was... 519 00:30:00,963 --> 00:30:08,106 so painful and such a shock that something in me snapped, 520 00:30:08,116 --> 00:30:10,386 and I-I... 521 00:30:11,567 --> 00:30:13,901 I span round in my chair... 522 00:30:14,843 --> 00:30:18,497 and... and sort of punched the top of his leg... 523 00:30:20,294 --> 00:30:21,433 with a little... 524 00:30:21,976 --> 00:30:23,338 paring knife... 525 00:30:23,517 --> 00:30:24,927 still in my hand. 526 00:30:26,403 --> 00:30:28,387 And he must have been so surprised himself, 527 00:30:28,397 --> 00:30:30,240 he didn't even come after me as I bolted, 528 00:30:30,250 --> 00:30:32,155 and I managed to get to the downstairs loo 529 00:30:32,165 --> 00:30:33,435 and lock myself in. 530 00:30:33,445 --> 00:30:35,483 And I could hear him shouting at me, 531 00:30:35,493 --> 00:30:37,355 calling me a bitch and a whore, 532 00:30:37,365 --> 00:30:41,672 and telling me what he was going to do to me. 533 00:30:44,941 --> 00:30:48,338 And then I heard him say he was bleeding badly. 534 00:30:49,941 --> 00:30:51,490 And then it went quiet 535 00:30:52,085 --> 00:30:54,385 for a bit, and... and then he... 536 00:30:56,300 --> 00:30:59,157 he called my name, still quite angrily... 537 00:30:59,601 --> 00:31:03,119 and then it just went quiet. And stayed quiet. 538 00:31:06,743 --> 00:31:09,468 I stayed in the loo for, I don't know, maybe half an hour. 539 00:31:09,478 --> 00:31:12,187 I didn't come out till I was sure he'd have calmed down. 540 00:31:15,141 --> 00:31:18,981 I found him on the kitchen floor in a pool of blood. 541 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:22,775 Dead. 542 00:31:25,794 --> 00:31:28,499 No good crying over spilt milk, Mum. 543 00:31:29,628 --> 00:31:31,531 Just want you home now. 544 00:31:32,399 --> 00:31:34,320 That's what we're gonna do, Marty. 545 00:31:34,887 --> 00:31:37,431 Soon as Mum's up and walking, 546 00:31:37,482 --> 00:31:39,710 we'll get her some help at home, OK? 547 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,684 - Yeah? - Yeah. 548 00:31:41,694 --> 00:31:45,941 Help at home, that's what we wanted, isn't it? Yeah? 549 00:31:49,461 --> 00:31:52,461 Home sweet home, Mum. 550 00:32:00,254 --> 00:32:01,651 As soon as I... 551 00:32:02,149 --> 00:32:03,922 saw he was dead... 552 00:32:04,682 --> 00:32:06,676 in that same instant... 553 00:32:07,375 --> 00:32:08,418 I knew... 554 00:32:10,228 --> 00:32:11,601 I would do... 555 00:32:11,879 --> 00:32:14,118 whatever I needed to do... 556 00:32:14,438 --> 00:32:15,989 to protect my daughter. 557 00:32:16,028 --> 00:32:18,961 I would not... I could not... 558 00:32:19,828 --> 00:32:21,506 leave her alone. 559 00:32:25,347 --> 00:32:27,498 No father, and me in prison. 560 00:32:28,995 --> 00:32:31,127 But I knew I needed to be... 561 00:32:31,828 --> 00:32:35,226 very fucking focused not to get caught. 562 00:32:36,044 --> 00:32:39,071 First up, I used multiple cloths to mop it up, 563 00:32:39,454 --> 00:32:41,032 put them all into a bucket, 564 00:32:41,042 --> 00:32:43,300 and then everything into multiple bin liners. 565 00:32:43,310 --> 00:32:47,356 I then stripped all my clothes off, put them into bin liners, 566 00:32:47,616 --> 00:32:51,507 and then wrapped Gerry in the same 567 00:32:51,517 --> 00:32:55,230 before dragging him into his office and locking the door. 568 00:32:57,828 --> 00:33:00,626 In the morning, I took Taylor to school... 569 00:33:03,633 --> 00:33:06,080 saying Daddy had left for a work meeting, 570 00:33:06,688 --> 00:33:09,680 and arranged a playdate for her that evening. 571 00:33:09,690 --> 00:33:13,508 I then went to work, leaving Gerry's phone on 572 00:33:13,518 --> 00:33:15,152 and charged at home. 573 00:33:16,343 --> 00:33:18,700 My last lecture finished at three, 574 00:33:18,828 --> 00:33:21,333 then I drove home, stopping first at an internet cafe 575 00:33:21,343 --> 00:33:23,132 to Google the fuck out of stuff, 576 00:33:23,142 --> 00:33:25,561 then a hardware store, where I bought... 577 00:33:27,336 --> 00:33:30,196 two new carving knives, more refuse sacks 578 00:33:30,206 --> 00:33:32,484 and some gaffer tape, with cash. 579 00:33:32,494 --> 00:33:34,249 When I got back to the pub... 580 00:33:36,207 --> 00:33:40,639 I made sure I had a nice chat with them all then went upstairs. 581 00:33:44,374 --> 00:33:46,693 I dragged Gerry back into the kitchen... 582 00:33:49,501 --> 00:33:52,858 and I cut him up into six pieces. 583 00:33:56,993 --> 00:33:58,565 Took less than an hour. 584 00:34:02,397 --> 00:34:05,294 Minimal blood by this stage, obviously. 585 00:34:07,326 --> 00:34:10,492 Then I wrapped each part in bin liners, and again, 586 00:34:10,502 --> 00:34:12,529 took off all my clothes, put them into bin liners, 587 00:34:12,539 --> 00:34:15,604 before showering and putting on fresh clothes. 588 00:34:16,715 --> 00:34:19,410 I then put Gerry back in his office, 589 00:34:20,058 --> 00:34:24,221 locked the door, and drove to pick up Taylor from her playdate. 590 00:34:29,287 --> 00:34:30,812 When she was in the bath... 591 00:34:34,374 --> 00:34:38,087 one by one, I put the bits of Gerry into a big... 592 00:34:38,687 --> 00:34:41,630 holdall and then into the boot of the car. 593 00:34:41,828 --> 00:34:44,450 I then stirred a herbal sleeping pill 594 00:34:44,460 --> 00:34:46,837 into a cup of hot chocolate and put Taylor to bed. 595 00:34:48,187 --> 00:34:49,706 After the pub was shut, 596 00:34:50,705 --> 00:34:52,551 I went and changed the number plate 597 00:34:52,561 --> 00:34:54,406 with cut-up pieces of gaffer tape, 598 00:34:54,431 --> 00:34:57,598 and at 2:30 in the morning, 599 00:34:58,075 --> 00:34:59,851 I drove east to the marshes. 600 00:35:08,947 --> 00:35:10,530 And that's what happened. 601 00:35:20,854 --> 00:35:23,478 - Her timeline's wrong. - Her what? 602 00:35:27,227 --> 00:35:28,702 What? What is it? 603 00:35:34,887 --> 00:35:36,404 There. Right? 604 00:35:36,757 --> 00:35:40,328 On the 22nd, he calls a takeaway at 19:12, 605 00:35:40,338 --> 00:35:42,376 which is about 100 yards from their flat. 606 00:35:42,401 --> 00:35:43,494 Yeah? 607 00:35:43,730 --> 00:35:45,019 And then... 608 00:35:45,628 --> 00:35:49,414 he gets this text message confirming the delivery address for the order 609 00:35:49,424 --> 00:35:50,807 as the flat above their pub. 610 00:35:51,806 --> 00:35:54,505 Well, why would she say that he didn't get home till 11? 611 00:35:54,515 --> 00:35:56,675 Exactly. Why lie about the timing, 612 00:35:56,685 --> 00:35:58,844 if you've confessed to the murder? 613 00:36:00,518 --> 00:36:01,828 Why do you think? 614 00:36:03,207 --> 00:36:04,814 I think you know. 615 00:36:12,301 --> 00:36:15,981 Taylor, you wouldn't be telling us anything we don't already know. 616 00:36:20,028 --> 00:36:21,875 Yeah. Yes. Yeah, he hit her. 617 00:36:23,169 --> 00:36:24,689 And did you witness it? 618 00:36:26,132 --> 00:36:28,634 I heard it. Lots of times. 619 00:36:29,946 --> 00:36:32,892 And... I saw the bruises on her body. 620 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,961 But then the last row, I actually did see it, yeah. 621 00:36:38,828 --> 00:36:39,792 OK. 622 00:36:40,431 --> 00:36:42,307 And can you tell us about it? 623 00:36:43,733 --> 00:36:45,083 Look, whatever's happened, 624 00:36:45,868 --> 00:36:48,828 whatever my mum's admitted doing, 625 00:36:48,992 --> 00:36:50,572 it would have only been in self-defence. 626 00:36:50,582 --> 00:36:52,657 We absolutely know that. 627 00:36:57,538 --> 00:36:59,692 I was... I was just in my bedroom, 628 00:36:59,702 --> 00:37:01,464 doing some homework, um... 629 00:37:02,079 --> 00:37:03,824 and I heard him start shouting. 630 00:37:04,333 --> 00:37:05,879 Roughly what time? 631 00:37:06,812 --> 00:37:07,857 Maybe eight? 632 00:37:08,292 --> 00:37:09,234 OK. 633 00:37:09,244 --> 00:37:10,664 So I put my buds in... 634 00:37:12,049 --> 00:37:13,580 but I could still hear him. 635 00:37:13,590 --> 00:37:17,126 And, um, I could hear her screaming back at him. 636 00:37:17,136 --> 00:37:20,015 And I don't know why, but this time, I decided to go downstairs. 637 00:37:20,274 --> 00:37:22,237 And she was on the floor in the kitchen. 638 00:37:22,432 --> 00:37:23,790 She was on her side, 639 00:37:23,912 --> 00:37:26,256 and she kept trying to get up, but every time she would, he'd... 640 00:37:26,827 --> 00:37:29,277 bring the heel of his boot down on her ribs... 641 00:37:30,278 --> 00:37:31,505 really hard. 642 00:37:32,548 --> 00:37:34,659 And, um, she was crying, 643 00:37:35,423 --> 00:37:36,870 and it was horrible. 644 00:37:37,788 --> 00:37:39,649 He had his back to me, and she was... 645 00:37:39,674 --> 00:37:41,616 faced away, so neither of them saw me, but... 646 00:37:41,626 --> 00:37:43,473 I just, I wanted to do something to stop him 647 00:37:43,483 --> 00:37:45,138 because I thought he was gonna kill her. 648 00:37:45,992 --> 00:37:47,503 So there was this little knife... 649 00:37:47,709 --> 00:37:48,931 on the kitchen table, 650 00:37:48,941 --> 00:37:51,815 and I grabbed it and sort of jabbed it into his leg. 651 00:37:51,825 --> 00:37:53,699 I'm just gonna have to quickly caution... 652 00:37:53,709 --> 00:37:55,625 It's fi... It's fine, it's fine. 653 00:37:55,635 --> 00:37:57,551 There's no need. Um, carry on. 654 00:37:58,579 --> 00:38:02,167 So you... you grabbed it, and you jabbed it in his leg. 655 00:38:04,116 --> 00:38:06,279 Yeah, and he, um, he cried out in shock. 656 00:38:06,385 --> 00:38:09,665 He swung round, and he saw me, and he looked so upset. 657 00:38:11,175 --> 00:38:12,051 Um... 658 00:38:12,391 --> 00:38:14,485 But then Mum was back up on her feet, so she... 659 00:38:14,592 --> 00:38:16,252 grabbed my hand, and she led me upstairs. 660 00:38:16,277 --> 00:38:17,659 And I just remember looking back... 661 00:38:18,032 --> 00:38:20,982 and seeing him watch me go, holding the back of his leg, 662 00:38:20,992 --> 00:38:23,190 and he just looked really sad. 663 00:38:23,325 --> 00:38:26,646 And then, my mum ran me a bath upstairs, and... 664 00:38:27,753 --> 00:38:29,401 she read with me, and then... 665 00:38:29,810 --> 00:38:31,602 then she stroked me to sleep. 666 00:38:32,992 --> 00:38:34,676 And the next morning, there was a... 667 00:38:34,686 --> 00:38:36,321 a Crunchie by the side of my bed. 668 00:38:37,368 --> 00:38:38,586 And, um... 669 00:38:39,435 --> 00:38:41,274 Mum said that Dad had left it for me 670 00:38:41,284 --> 00:38:43,867 and that he had to leave early for a work meeting, so... 671 00:38:44,681 --> 00:38:46,827 I knew he'd forgiven me for what I'd done. 672 00:38:46,837 --> 00:38:48,448 And, uh... 673 00:38:51,315 --> 00:38:53,181 did you see him that evening? 674 00:38:55,444 --> 00:38:57,744 No. I had a playdate after school. 675 00:38:59,849 --> 00:39:03,332 And, um, Mum said that he was on a work call in his office 676 00:39:03,342 --> 00:39:04,995 and that I wasn't to disturb him. 677 00:39:06,461 --> 00:39:09,096 And then the next day was when he went missing. 678 00:39:14,292 --> 00:39:15,525 Oh, my God. 679 00:39:19,284 --> 00:39:20,496 She doesn't know. 680 00:39:20,822 --> 00:39:21,753 No. 681 00:39:22,116 --> 00:39:24,941 Her mother took her upstairs, she never even saw him bleeding. 682 00:39:26,168 --> 00:39:29,453 I mean... what do we even do with that? Just... 683 00:39:30,074 --> 00:39:31,651 What do we do? 684 00:39:35,104 --> 00:39:38,517 OK, so I think we only really have two options. 685 00:39:40,799 --> 00:39:43,275 We somehow ignore that, 686 00:39:43,541 --> 00:39:45,670 what she just said, let the mother take the blame. 687 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,389 OK, so Juliet goes self-defence, gets maybe... 688 00:39:49,399 --> 00:39:51,322 - four years, out in two? - Yeah. 689 00:39:51,332 --> 00:39:54,620 And then we're liable for perverting the course of justice. 690 00:39:54,992 --> 00:39:56,714 - Yes. - Or? 691 00:39:57,692 --> 00:40:00,476 - We tell the CPS. - What she just told us? 692 00:40:00,486 --> 00:40:02,550 They will almost certainly decide that charges 693 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:04,858 - are not in the public interest. - Almost certainly. 694 00:40:04,868 --> 00:40:06,265 Well, exactly. 695 00:40:06,361 --> 00:40:08,559 And even... even if they do decide that, 696 00:40:08,569 --> 00:40:11,291 a 14-year-old kid still has to live with the knowledge 697 00:40:11,301 --> 00:40:13,522 that she killed her own dad. 698 00:40:16,885 --> 00:40:19,230 Do you know what? This is not our decision to make. 699 00:40:19,615 --> 00:40:22,184 - Who the hell else's is it? - It's Juliet's. 700 00:40:22,839 --> 00:40:23,865 No. 701 00:40:23,931 --> 00:40:25,808 You do not want the weight of this on your shoulders. 702 00:40:25,818 --> 00:40:27,348 - Please. - Jess... 703 00:40:29,005 --> 00:40:30,823 trust me, you do not. 704 00:40:33,410 --> 00:40:35,376 We need to speak to Juliet. 705 00:40:52,726 --> 00:40:54,750 Why would you have interviewed her? 706 00:40:54,832 --> 00:40:56,699 Why would you have done that? 707 00:40:59,344 --> 00:41:01,340 She's been through so much already. 708 00:41:01,350 --> 00:41:04,592 Why couldn't you just let me protect her? 709 00:41:04,602 --> 00:41:07,634 Because even taking into account the circumstances, Juliet, 710 00:41:07,644 --> 00:41:10,224 you might still spend two years in jail 711 00:41:10,234 --> 00:41:12,555 - away from your daughter. - Which is infinitely better 712 00:41:12,580 --> 00:41:15,055 than her spending a single second there! 713 00:41:15,065 --> 00:41:16,986 Except we don't think she would. 714 00:41:17,390 --> 00:41:21,095 We think a reasonable force argument would prevail, 715 00:41:21,105 --> 00:41:23,707 and we don't think the CPS would want to prosecute. 716 00:41:23,717 --> 00:41:27,852 Now, you could then be charged with unlawful disposal 717 00:41:27,862 --> 00:41:29,898 and perverting the course of justice... 718 00:41:30,858 --> 00:41:32,192 but again, 719 00:41:32,451 --> 00:41:33,737 given the circumstances, 720 00:41:33,747 --> 00:41:36,309 we don't think the CPS would want to prosecute, 721 00:41:36,319 --> 00:41:38,733 although that's a risk you need to consider. 722 00:41:38,743 --> 00:41:41,641 Now obviously, you know, we can't guarantee anything, 723 00:41:42,188 --> 00:41:44,735 but you can decide what you want to do. 724 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:45,673 There's... 725 00:41:45,717 --> 00:41:48,434 There's no record of our conversation with Taylor. 726 00:41:48,444 --> 00:41:51,040 We just wanted to let you know that you have a choice. 727 00:41:52,107 --> 00:41:53,763 Oh, my God. 728 00:42:05,605 --> 00:42:07,125 What would you do? 729 00:42:12,625 --> 00:42:16,130 So for a number of reasons, this is my last show. 730 00:42:16,204 --> 00:42:18,166 BNC have said it's because I've been guilty 731 00:42:18,176 --> 00:42:21,000 of "moral turpitude", and... maybe I have, 732 00:42:21,306 --> 00:42:23,405 but I think the real reason I've been fired is because 733 00:42:23,415 --> 00:42:25,677 I've stopped being able to say what they want me to say 734 00:42:25,687 --> 00:42:26,870 and believe it. 735 00:42:26,992 --> 00:42:29,539 Now, what they've wanted me to say was generally 736 00:42:29,549 --> 00:42:32,596 what they thought YOU believed. And of course, you're entitled 737 00:42:32,606 --> 00:42:34,123 to hold whichever views you wish, 738 00:42:34,133 --> 00:42:36,545 it is a free country with free speech, 739 00:42:36,555 --> 00:42:39,346 but I do also want to say this. 740 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,988 Don't you sometimes want to hear the other side of the debate? 741 00:42:43,261 --> 00:42:45,354 I think a channel like ours should test 742 00:42:45,364 --> 00:42:47,549 and challenge its audience sometimes. 743 00:42:47,814 --> 00:42:50,023 I think we should air contrary positions 744 00:42:50,033 --> 00:42:52,982 to the ones we know you think because surely, it's only through 745 00:42:52,992 --> 00:42:55,449 a vigorous but respectful exchange of opinions, 746 00:42:55,459 --> 00:42:57,601 that new ideas, hopefully better ones, 747 00:42:57,611 --> 00:43:00,244 about how we live our lives today can begin to develop. 748 00:43:00,591 --> 00:43:03,595 Now, I was pretty angry when they first fired me, 749 00:43:03,605 --> 00:43:05,257 and I was gonna sit here and give them 750 00:43:05,267 --> 00:43:07,588 and you both barrels tonight. 751 00:43:07,992 --> 00:43:09,120 But you know what? 752 00:43:09,898 --> 00:43:11,139 Enough rage, 753 00:43:11,544 --> 00:43:14,668 enough division, it's really not getting us anywhere, is it? 754 00:43:14,900 --> 00:43:16,777 So instead I wish you all love, 755 00:43:16,835 --> 00:43:18,261 I wish you all peace, 756 00:43:18,293 --> 00:43:19,788 and for now, from me 757 00:43:19,798 --> 00:43:22,908 it's good night, good luck, and God bless. 758 00:43:24,885 --> 00:43:26,742 Thank you, Mel. 759 00:43:27,587 --> 00:43:29,449 Coming up later... 760 00:43:49,812 --> 00:43:51,420 What's happening, Mum? 761 00:44:10,044 --> 00:44:12,096 And you'll lose your commission... 762 00:44:12,497 --> 00:44:14,250 - Hmm? - Probably. 763 00:44:15,352 --> 00:44:16,824 Oh, Sam. 764 00:44:17,818 --> 00:44:19,039 Hey, I'm... 765 00:44:19,064 --> 00:44:21,594 not gonna be incarcerated on a barge 766 00:44:21,604 --> 00:44:23,604 for the next God knows how many months, so... 767 00:44:24,308 --> 00:44:25,658 I've no regrets. 768 00:44:26,376 --> 00:44:28,044 I took you for granted. 769 00:44:30,323 --> 00:44:32,464 And you being able to stay here... 770 00:44:33,404 --> 00:44:37,718 us being able to be together is way more important than my job. 771 00:44:41,434 --> 00:44:42,992 And, uh... 772 00:44:50,718 --> 00:44:52,348 Fuck it. Um... 773 00:44:53,912 --> 00:44:56,572 This is not how I planned this, um... 774 00:44:58,405 --> 00:45:00,812 How would you fancy marrying me, gorgeous man? 775 00:45:03,992 --> 00:45:06,032 - Yes. Yes. - Oh. 776 00:45:16,178 --> 00:45:18,378 Yep, OK, understood. 777 00:45:18,802 --> 00:45:20,160 OK, I'll tell them. 778 00:45:20,507 --> 00:45:21,841 Thanks. Bye. 779 00:45:27,358 --> 00:45:31,134 Not in the public interest to charge Taylor. 780 00:45:32,473 --> 00:45:33,473 And Juliet? 781 00:45:34,737 --> 00:45:36,069 Same. 782 00:45:46,807 --> 00:45:48,615 We made a decision 783 00:45:50,519 --> 00:45:52,572 Sometimes, that's all you can do. 784 00:45:52,941 --> 00:45:53,981 Yeah. 785 00:45:55,267 --> 00:45:56,825 Let's go tell 'em. 786 00:46:16,381 --> 00:46:17,251 Hey. Mel. 787 00:46:17,276 --> 00:46:18,546 - Hey. - How are you? 788 00:46:18,618 --> 00:46:20,307 I'm good, thanks, really good. 789 00:46:20,317 --> 00:46:21,828 Not seen you for a few days. 790 00:46:22,287 --> 00:46:24,700 Uh, no, I've been away for a bit. But I'm back now. 791 00:46:24,878 --> 00:46:27,054 - I'm back. - Good. 792 00:47:21,807 --> 00:47:24,984 Hi, you've reached Leanne. Please leave a message after the tone. 793 00:47:26,282 --> 00:47:28,356 Hey, it's me. Um... 794 00:47:29,070 --> 00:47:31,604 so thank you for telling me what you did. 795 00:47:32,279 --> 00:47:35,414 I'm not sure how you expected me to react, but... 796 00:47:35,906 --> 00:47:39,442 but you seemed pretty scared... and I get that. 797 00:47:40,557 --> 00:47:44,690 So let's meet, let's, uh, talk more, let's get drunk more. 798 00:47:45,118 --> 00:47:47,105 We all have our stories, Lea. 799 00:47:47,807 --> 00:47:51,038 Stuff that we did that we wish was different. 800 00:47:51,129 --> 00:47:53,672 The people that we were that we wish we weren't. 801 00:47:54,327 --> 00:47:55,702 God knows I have. 802 00:47:56,330 --> 00:47:57,925 So let's meet. 803 00:47:58,807 --> 00:48:00,450 Yeah, let's talk. 804 00:48:00,460 --> 00:48:01,896 Call me, when you're ready. 805 00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:52,000 *CREDITS*