1
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Dennis Nilsen is charged with murdering

2
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Kenneth Ockenden, Martyn Duffy,
William Sutherland, Malcolm Barlow,

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John Howlett and Stephen Sinclair.

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He's also accused of attempting
to murder Douglas Stewart

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and Paul Knobbs.

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As each of the eight
charges were read out,

7
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the defendant was asked,
"How say you, Nilson?

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"Are you guilty or not guilty?"

9
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Eight times, in a firm voice,
he replied, "Not guilty."

10
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But is Nilson guilty of murder,

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or is he guilty only of manslaughter?

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Synced & corrected by QueenMaddie
www.addic7ed.com

13
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I don't understand.

14
00:00:57,397 --> 00:00:58,637
Well, it's quite simple.

15
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Having spoken to my solicitors,
my barrister, um...

16
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learned people from the
psychology profession,

17
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I'm not sure if I am guilty.

18
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But on-on what grounds?

19
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In all the months
that we've been talking

20
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you've not mentioned a
plea of insanity once.

21
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Not insanity, no.
Diminished responsibility.

22
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But am I mad? I don't know.

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Madness, as Quixote said,
"Madness is seeing life as it is,

24
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"and not as it should be."

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You murdered those men, Des.

26
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And you knew what you were doing.

27
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Did I? I don't deny taking their lives.

28
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You know, I must wear
the label of a killer,

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and maybe I should be hanged for it.

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But I didn't plan them.

31
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Never.

32
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I took them home with
much purer intentions.

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Then I'd wake up and
they'd be sat there, dead.

34
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Now, no-one feels the
weight of that more than me.

35
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But the power of responsibility,
at that time, was nil.

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I-I look in the mirror,
and I see me, yeah?

37
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Just me. It's friendly, helpful,
responsible me. Just that.

38
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If this was true,
then why didn't you go to the police

39
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after the first time it happened?

40
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Don't you think I contemplated
that, Brian? Eh?

41
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Don't you think I wanted to
hand myself in, or end it all?

42
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Y'know? But then...

43
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survival and shame and the future

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makes you promise yourself
it'll never happen again...

45
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till it does.

46
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But yeah, I mean...

47
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had it not been for the dog,
I may well have surrendered myself.

48
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All I know is I don't know,

49
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and thus, a jury needs to decide.

50
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The press will be allowed to
publish every word spoken in court.

51
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Every single detail exposed.

52
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Is that not what you're doing?

53
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Well, I'm not exploiting

54
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these young men's tragedies
to sell newspapers.

55
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No, you're just exploiting me.

56
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I hope you know me better than that.

57
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I just want to get to the truth.

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Don't you?

59
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_

60
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Peter, you know Mr Green, QC.

61
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Allan, please.

62
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I hear he's got the Krays' brief?

63
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And Ivan Lawrence as QC.

64
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It's a formidable defence team,
to say the least.

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Please, take a seat.

66
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I take it their angle's
diminished responsibility?

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- Didn't wash with Sutcliffe.
- The jury won't buy it.

68
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Sutcliffe didn't watch
TV with the bodies.

69
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Nilsen's not insane.

70
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They don't have to prove that.

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All they have to do

72
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is show that he was suffering
some abnormality of mind

73
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and therefore not fully
responsible for what he was doing.

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We, on the other hand,
have to prove that these crimes

75
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were carefully planned and premeditated.

76
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Surely his confessions do that.

77
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I'm afraid the confessions
only take us so far.

78
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What do you mean?

79
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He gave you a lot of answers
which prove what he did,

80
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but not what mind he
was in when he did it.

81
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He gave you exactly what he wanted to.

82
00:04:07,705 --> 00:04:10,585
You hardly asked him
any probing questions

83
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about what was on his mind.

84
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Hold on. We didn't want
him to suddenly stop talking.

85
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We needed to identify 15 people.

86
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I understand that, but the effect
was he gave you a lot of details

87
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that aren't going to
help us convict him.

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I'm sorry,
are you saying he planned this?

89
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We'll never know.
But if all we have are the confessions,

90
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then that's not going to be enough.

91
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We need more. Much more.

92
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We should have pushed for motive.

93
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Don't listen to Green.

94
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Everybody always thinks they're
a better copper than a copper.

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If he'd have stopped talking

96
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there's no way we'd have
found the people we did.

97
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Listen, they're just looking
for someone to blame

98
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if this all goes pear-shaped.

99
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But we're gonna make damned
sure that doesn't happen.

100
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Yeah.

101
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See you tomorrow.

102
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Thanks for meeting me.

103
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Please, take a seat.

104
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I almost didn't come.

105
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But you did.

106
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Cos you know this is wrong.

107
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I take it he's written to you
over the past few months?

108
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Oh, he has.

109
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How much?

110
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52 exercise books' worth.

111
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We're gonna need to take a look at them.

112
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That could be useful to
prove premeditation.

113
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- Mr Jay...
- All that matters is that

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we find as much evidence as we can

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that Nilsen was in his right mind.

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What if he's insane?

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You think he's insane?

118
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Well, it's not for me to decide.

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He's not mad.
He knew what he was doing was wrong.

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Well, I don't deny that.

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But at the same time,

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he was able to take the
head of someone he'd known,

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the severed head,
into a cooking pot on the stove,

124
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and let it simmer overnight.

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And then the next morning,

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he was able to pour
himself a cup of coffee

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and butter a slice of toast,
whilst turning up the heat

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to make sure that
the head was boiling properly.

129
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Now that is completely mad.

130
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I mean...

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He's really done a number
on you, hasn't he?

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You mistake me, Mr Jay.

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He's not my friend. I know who he is.

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Do you?

135
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Right, well, if there's nothing else...

136
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Listen, if he can convince a jury

137
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that he was out of his mind somehow,

138
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then he only gets manslaughter.

139
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He goes to a hospital and then
in 15 years he's deemed cured,

140
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and he's back out on the streets.

141
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Is that justice for the
victims and their families?

142
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If that happens...

143
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can you live with yourself?

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Because I know I can't.

145
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I'll drop the exercise
books off at the station.

146
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But we have a murder weapon.

147
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A tie attached to a knotted rope.

148
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Seems pretty pre-emptive to me.

149
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Okay, good. What else?

150
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We've got Duffey's knives.

151
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Nilsen let them rust in his back garden

152
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so they could never be
traced back to Martyn.

153
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That shows knowledge of wrongdoing,
therefore criminally sane.

154
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That's a stretch.

155
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What about these books from Masters?

156
00:08:08,015 --> 00:08:09,815
Surely there's got to
be something in here.

157
00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:11,466
The tragedy of the monochrome man?

158
00:08:11,505 --> 00:08:13,466
I mean, most of it's rambling nonsense.

159
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They help the defence if anything.

160
00:08:16,238 --> 00:08:17,729
What about Douglas Stewart?

161
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The press'll have a field day
with what happened to Stewart.

162
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Police embarrassment is
hardly relevant now.

163
00:08:23,158 --> 00:08:25,375
We have to use him. What else?

164
00:08:25,898 --> 00:08:27,750
What about the Soho Project?

165
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What about it?

166
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A woman called.

167
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Thinks someone in her therapy
group could be a possible victim...

168
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but I thought we weren't
looking for them any more.

169
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Okay, Steve and I will follow that up.

170
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Is that our lot?

171
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Paul Knobbs, in his statement, says...

172
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Sorry to have called.

173
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It's just he's been having
this recurring dream,

174
00:09:02,847 --> 00:09:05,066
but actually,
I think he's been attacked.

175
00:09:05,091 --> 00:09:06,370
Okay.

176
00:09:06,487 --> 00:09:08,825
I hope I'm not wasting your time.

177
00:09:08,866 --> 00:09:11,152
Is it all right if we
have a word with him?

178
00:09:11,979 --> 00:09:14,361
Go easy on him, okay?

179
00:09:15,081 --> 00:09:17,733
Of course. What's his name?

180
00:09:17,758 --> 00:09:19,238
Carl.

181
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All right.

182
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I'm in a dark room.

183
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I don't know where, and...

184
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there's music but it's calm.

185
00:09:32,945 --> 00:09:37,106
And then... this man appears.

186
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And I can't see his face,

187
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but he's very close to me.

188
00:09:44,386 --> 00:09:47,386
Um... But I'm not afraid, because...

189
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I'm warm.

190
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I'm wrapped up in some
kind of sleeping bag.

191
00:09:55,780 --> 00:10:00,949
And then, all of a sudden,
I feel something around my neck...

192
00:10:01,949 --> 00:10:05,433
digging into my throat,
and-and choking me.

193
00:10:05,458 --> 00:10:09,106
And I can hear him saying,
"Just stay still".

194
00:10:09,599 --> 00:10:11,945
And then everything goes dark.

195
00:10:12,380 --> 00:10:15,396
But then, after a while, I feel...

196
00:10:16,568 --> 00:10:17,881
something on my face,

197
00:10:17,912 --> 00:10:22,785
like... sort of like a dog
licking me or something.

198
00:10:22,810 --> 00:10:24,746
Can you remember what breed?

199
00:10:25,825 --> 00:10:28,825
Um... No.

200
00:10:33,302 --> 00:10:35,063
Carl?

201
00:10:36,758 --> 00:10:38,638
Have you seen this man?

202
00:10:41,115 --> 00:10:45,185
- Yeah, yeah, on the news.
- His name is Dennis Nilsen.

203
00:10:45,488 --> 00:10:49,115
He killed 15 young men and
attempted to kill seven others.

204
00:10:50,154 --> 00:10:52,425
All of these men were strangled.

205
00:10:52,465 --> 00:10:55,146
Mostly with a tie or a headphone cord.

206
00:10:56,052 --> 00:10:58,636
But one, he tried to kill
with a sleeping bag.

207
00:11:00,305 --> 00:11:01,585
No...

208
00:11:05,458 --> 00:11:08,225
Cos the man in my dream keeps telling me

209
00:11:08,250 --> 00:11:10,779
not to get caught up in the zip.

210
00:11:16,746 --> 00:11:19,787
He also said he attempted to drown him

211
00:11:20,258 --> 00:11:22,599
before resuscitating him.

212
00:11:27,318 --> 00:11:29,568
I've never told anyone about the water.

213
00:11:30,715 --> 00:11:32,514
Do you remember the water?

214
00:11:32,660 --> 00:11:35,037
Yeah. Um...

215
00:11:36,207 --> 00:11:37,643
It was cold water,

216
00:11:37,676 --> 00:11:41,268
and I was being held down.

217
00:11:41,293 --> 00:11:44,347
Where? In a bath or a sink?

218
00:11:44,372 --> 00:11:46,892
I don't understand. Are you...

219
00:11:48,579 --> 00:11:50,769
Are you telling me that
this actually happened?

220
00:11:50,794 --> 00:11:51,996
Yes.

221
00:11:53,339 --> 00:11:55,986
I think you're one of
Nilsen's attempted victims.

222
00:11:56,675 --> 00:11:58,201
Because everything
that you are telling us

223
00:11:58,225 --> 00:12:00,345
aligns to what he told us.

224
00:12:00,370 --> 00:12:02,394
Can you remember where you met him or,

225
00:12:02,419 --> 00:12:04,166
anything about where he lived?

226
00:12:04,191 --> 00:12:05,394
Well, no...

227
00:12:05,419 --> 00:12:07,198
You said he warned you
about the sleeping bag.

228
00:12:07,222 --> 00:12:10,064
- What did he say exactly?
- I don't know.

229
00:12:10,089 --> 00:12:11,162
When he warned you about the zip,

230
00:12:11,186 --> 00:12:13,197
it shows he was planning
it way before he did it

231
00:12:13,222 --> 00:12:15,229
so I need you to be clear. Come on.

232
00:12:15,254 --> 00:12:17,440
- Just try to remember.
- I don't wanna do this any more.

233
00:12:17,464 --> 00:12:19,596
Look, you have to. I know this is tough,

234
00:12:19,621 --> 00:12:20,987
- but we need all the details.
- Detective.

235
00:12:21,011 --> 00:12:22,418
- Just think.
- Detective,

236
00:12:22,443 --> 00:12:23,495
he's told you he's had enough.

237
00:12:23,519 --> 00:12:24,589
I'm aware of that, but

238
00:12:24,614 --> 00:12:26,730
- we are, I'm-I'm just trying...
- Peter.

239
00:12:31,863 --> 00:12:33,088
We can't use him.

240
00:12:33,113 --> 00:12:35,017
He won't survive cross-examination.

241
00:12:35,042 --> 00:12:37,866
You saw him in there.
They'll destroy him.

242
00:12:39,597 --> 00:12:41,041
I'll come back in a couple of days,

243
00:12:41,066 --> 00:12:42,666
see if I can get a statement from him

244
00:12:42,705 --> 00:12:44,267
and we can read that out in court,

245
00:12:44,292 --> 00:12:45,866
if we need to.

246
00:12:46,415 --> 00:12:48,628
Peter... we have enough.

247
00:12:48,653 --> 00:12:51,066
And he led us to the bodies,
for fuck's sake.

248
00:12:59,694 --> 00:13:02,597
For the first day of this,
the trial of Dennis Nilsen,

249
00:13:02,629 --> 00:13:05,636
the unassuming civil servant
who's charged with crimes

250
00:13:05,661 --> 00:13:08,355
that have shocked
and sickened the nation.

251
00:13:08,538 --> 00:13:12,361
Nilsen is charged with six murders
and two attempted murders.

252
00:13:12,675 --> 00:13:16,146
Details of a recently identified
seventh victim, Graham Allen,

253
00:13:16,171 --> 00:13:18,206
a heroin addict and petty criminal,

254
00:13:18,231 --> 00:13:20,909
will not be featured on the indictment.

255
00:13:22,856 --> 00:13:24,072
Masters!

256
00:13:24,097 --> 00:13:26,652
What's it like being friends
with a serial killer?

257
00:13:27,519 --> 00:13:30,408
What's it like rubbing shoulders
with a murderer, Masters?

258
00:13:33,223 --> 00:13:36,128
What's it like being friends
with a serial killer?

259
00:13:56,457 --> 00:13:57,753
Steve.

260
00:13:58,542 --> 00:13:59,980
You all right?

261
00:14:00,005 --> 00:14:01,005
Good.

262
00:14:01,796 --> 00:14:04,436
- Sleep okay?
- No. I never do.

263
00:14:16,374 --> 00:14:18,538
Oh, here he is. Brian Masters,

264
00:14:18,563 --> 00:14:20,923
biographer to the
murderer of the century.

265
00:14:20,948 --> 00:14:22,669
Did you see the press outside?

266
00:14:22,694 --> 00:14:24,796
Jesus, they'll have headlines for weeks.

267
00:14:24,821 --> 00:14:26,874
Revelling in the case, like carrion.

268
00:14:26,899 --> 00:14:29,132
One of the papers today had the headline

269
00:14:29,157 --> 00:14:31,444
"House Of Horrors - The Trial."

270
00:14:31,469 --> 00:14:32,843
The only "house of
horrors" I've ever seen

271
00:14:32,867 --> 00:14:34,267
is Number Ten Downing Street.

272
00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,491
- They mention you an' all.
- Yes, I saw.

273
00:14:37,516 --> 00:14:41,317
Yeah? How do you feel, being
talked about in a national newspaper?

274
00:14:42,109 --> 00:14:43,992
You wanted to see me?

275
00:14:44,545 --> 00:14:46,986
Aye. They've brought me my suit,
but no tie.

276
00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,382
I was wondering if I could borrow yours.

277
00:14:51,825 --> 00:14:53,062
Right.

278
00:14:53,087 --> 00:14:55,640
I know it's an ask,
but an open-necked shirt

279
00:14:55,665 --> 00:14:58,257
isn't the kind of impression
I want to give out

280
00:14:58,282 --> 00:15:00,054
on the first day of the trial.

281
00:15:03,496 --> 00:15:05,520
Right. I'll leave it with the guard.

282
00:15:05,545 --> 00:15:07,425
My saviour.

283
00:15:07,615 --> 00:15:09,345
I started out with 15 ties,

284
00:15:09,370 --> 00:15:11,466
but now the police have
them all in evidence.

285
00:15:14,624 --> 00:15:16,974
You, the members of the jury,
will be asked

286
00:15:16,999 --> 00:15:20,685
to ascertain this man's state of
mind at the time of the killings

287
00:15:20,710 --> 00:15:23,121
and to decide, as a result,

288
00:15:23,146 --> 00:15:27,552
if he is guilty of the murder
of six innocent young men,

289
00:15:27,577 --> 00:15:30,545
or merely of their manslaughter.

290
00:15:30,699 --> 00:15:35,012
That Mr Nilsen killed these men
is not contested by the defence.

291
00:15:35,037 --> 00:15:36,599
They will argue, however,

292
00:15:36,624 --> 00:15:40,920
that he was out of his mind
when he committed his crimes,

293
00:15:40,945 --> 00:15:43,857
and that he cannot be
held truly accountable.

294
00:15:43,882 --> 00:15:46,659
But I intend to prove that
Mr Nilsen not only

295
00:15:46,684 --> 00:15:48,339
knew what he was doing,

296
00:15:48,370 --> 00:15:52,890
but that these crimes were
premeditated and carefully planned.

297
00:15:53,299 --> 00:15:57,142
He lured 15 innocent young men

298
00:15:57,167 --> 00:15:58,855
back to his home,

299
00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,800
before cruelly murdering them.

300
00:16:02,326 --> 00:16:04,807
Mr Nilsen is no madman.

301
00:16:04,832 --> 00:16:07,472
He is intelligent and rational,

302
00:16:07,504 --> 00:16:10,583
possessing the skills
to conceal his crimes,

303
00:16:10,881 --> 00:16:13,355
and manipulate those around him.

304
00:16:13,574 --> 00:16:19,215
He is, in short, an experienced
and calculating killer.

305
00:16:20,339 --> 00:16:24,152
I have spent a total of 14
hours with Dennis Nilsen,

306
00:16:24,177 --> 00:16:27,337
on 16 separate occasions
since his arrest.

307
00:16:27,362 --> 00:16:29,768
You are a forensic psychiatrist,
Dr Hardy?

308
00:16:29,793 --> 00:16:30,969
- Correct.
- Could you share

309
00:16:30,994 --> 00:16:32,891
with the court the clinical evaluation

310
00:16:32,916 --> 00:16:35,329
you made of the defendant
during these many meetings?

311
00:16:35,354 --> 00:16:39,033
Did you find, for example,
any evidence of mental abnormality?

312
00:16:39,058 --> 00:16:41,150
Quite the reverse.
I formed the impression very quickly

313
00:16:41,174 --> 00:16:42,797
that he was a highly intelligent man.

314
00:16:42,822 --> 00:16:46,805
In my view, Nilsen possesses
an extremely rational mind.

315
00:16:46,830 --> 00:16:49,344
He is capable of feeling very deeply

316
00:16:49,369 --> 00:16:53,241
and concealing these feelings in
order to preserve appearances.

317
00:16:53,391 --> 00:16:56,146
Thank you.
No further questions, my Lord.

318
00:16:58,527 --> 00:17:02,495
Dennis Nilsen killed
perhaps 15 young men,

319
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:04,411
for no apparent reason.

320
00:17:04,436 --> 00:17:07,231
He kept their bodies,
bathed and dressed them,

321
00:17:07,256 --> 00:17:09,137
watched television programmes with them,

322
00:17:09,162 --> 00:17:12,243
conversed with them
about those programmes.

323
00:17:12,268 --> 00:17:16,387
You say you find no evidence
of mental disturbance.

324
00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:20,614
Of course strangling people
is not normal behaviour.

325
00:17:20,639 --> 00:17:23,622
While Nilsen was on remand,

326
00:17:23,647 --> 00:17:28,106
he made a series of
protests and complaints

327
00:17:28,131 --> 00:17:32,000
about his treatment in
Her Majesty's Prison Herne Hill.

328
00:17:32,025 --> 00:17:34,004
Would you not agree that this shows

329
00:17:34,029 --> 00:17:36,684
markedly paranoid tendencies?

330
00:17:36,884 --> 00:17:39,278
Perhaps. In some cases.

331
00:17:39,303 --> 00:17:42,881
And in this case, in fact,
his behaviour became so extreme,

332
00:17:42,906 --> 00:17:48,657
so erratic, that he was recently
put down as a suicide risk.

333
00:17:49,033 --> 00:17:50,632
Could you tell us, Dr Hardy,

334
00:17:50,657 --> 00:17:53,555
who the psychiatrist was
who recommended this step?

335
00:17:55,457 --> 00:17:56,561
I did.

336
00:17:56,586 --> 00:17:58,608
So, would you not agree

337
00:17:58,633 --> 00:18:01,446
that someone at risk of suicide is,
by definition,

338
00:18:01,471 --> 00:18:03,985
suffering a mental disorder?

339
00:18:04,996 --> 00:18:09,399
I suppose, in strict terms,
that is true.

340
00:18:09,424 --> 00:18:11,863
Thank you.
No further questions, my Lord.

341
00:18:33,616 --> 00:18:35,017
Miss Mead?

342
00:18:36,236 --> 00:18:38,476
They're using what happened to Graham,

343
00:18:38,780 --> 00:18:40,758
making it all public,

344
00:18:40,927 --> 00:18:42,961
but he doesn't get justice?

345
00:18:43,985 --> 00:18:45,524
I know.

346
00:18:46,052 --> 00:18:49,572
Look, there are certain details
about his case that can...

347
00:18:49,597 --> 00:18:50,985
You didn't give a shit about him

348
00:18:51,010 --> 00:18:53,133
when you thought he was
just a junkie who OD'd

349
00:18:53,158 --> 00:18:55,277
in a squat or a bedsit somewhere.

350
00:18:55,302 --> 00:18:59,102
But now, you're gonna
bring up every little detail.

351
00:19:02,029 --> 00:19:03,549
I'm sorry.

352
00:19:06,213 --> 00:19:07,934
No, you're not.

353
00:19:09,095 --> 00:19:12,336
Do you have any fucking idea
what you've put me through?

354
00:19:13,717 --> 00:19:16,172
And he won't even get justice?

355
00:19:19,016 --> 00:19:21,274
All you lot care about

356
00:19:21,623 --> 00:19:25,063
is you're the people that
caught Dennis Nilsen.

357
00:19:28,556 --> 00:19:31,369
Peter. We're back in.

358
00:19:44,213 --> 00:19:45,635
So, Mr Stewart,

359
00:19:45,660 --> 00:19:47,660
after meeting him in the Golden Lion,

360
00:19:47,685 --> 00:19:50,658
Mr Nilsen suggested that you
both go back to his residence

361
00:19:50,683 --> 00:19:53,057
- to continue drinking?
- That's right.

362
00:19:53,082 --> 00:19:56,775
195 Melrose Avenue.
I remember it very clearly.

363
00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,900
- And what happened next?
- We had a couple more pints.

364
00:19:59,925 --> 00:20:03,165
He offered me vodka but I said,
"It's not my drink".

365
00:20:03,869 --> 00:20:07,057
Then he asked me to go to bed with him.

366
00:20:07,082 --> 00:20:09,150
I said that wasn't my thing either.

367
00:20:09,175 --> 00:20:11,713
So I fell asleep on the sofa.

368
00:20:11,808 --> 00:20:15,307
I woke up, must have
been a few hours later,

369
00:20:15,332 --> 00:20:19,011
and my ankles were
tied together with a tie.

370
00:20:19,334 --> 00:20:22,580
Nilsen was kneeling on my chest,
trying to strangle me.

371
00:20:22,605 --> 00:20:23,924
But I fought him off.

372
00:20:23,949 --> 00:20:25,705
I wasn't going down without a fight.

373
00:20:25,730 --> 00:20:27,447
How did he respond to that?

374
00:20:27,939 --> 00:20:30,940
He started shouting,
"Take my money, take my money!"

375
00:20:30,965 --> 00:20:32,612
Really loud, like.

376
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,502
But you weren't stealing from him?

377
00:20:41,527 --> 00:20:44,471
Seemed like he was trying
to make the neighbours think

378
00:20:44,496 --> 00:20:46,213
he was being attacked himself.

379
00:20:46,238 --> 00:20:48,920
He was trying to create an alibi.

380
00:20:48,945 --> 00:20:51,791
Hardly the act of a man out of his mind.

381
00:20:52,111 --> 00:20:54,682
Thank you, Mr Stewart.
No further questions, my Lord.

382
00:20:55,159 --> 00:20:58,330
In your police statement, Mr Stewart,

383
00:20:58,355 --> 00:21:02,307
you said you stayed for
another drink with Nilsen.

384
00:21:02,700 --> 00:21:06,301
Another drink,
after he allegedly tried to kill you?

385
00:21:06,669 --> 00:21:09,601
Well, I thought that was the
best way to calm him down.

386
00:21:09,626 --> 00:21:10,745
I see.

387
00:21:10,785 --> 00:21:11,869
You mentioned earlier

388
00:21:11,894 --> 00:21:15,934
that you remembered seeing
the address as 195 Melrose Avenue.

389
00:21:16,034 --> 00:21:18,338
How did you remember
the address so clearly?

390
00:21:18,519 --> 00:21:20,519
I saw the number on the door.

391
00:21:20,746 --> 00:21:24,104
You also told us that when
you met him in the pub

392
00:21:24,129 --> 00:21:27,180
the defendant introduced
himself to you as Dennis.

393
00:21:27,205 --> 00:21:29,151
- Yeah.
- And that when you got to his house

394
00:21:29,176 --> 00:21:32,627
to continue your drinking session
together, he offered you vodka.

395
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:34,240
That's right.

396
00:21:34,265 --> 00:21:37,557
Unfortunately, none of
these things are true, are they?

397
00:21:37,582 --> 00:21:39,862
The defendant's first name may be Dennis

398
00:21:39,887 --> 00:21:42,687
but he always calls himself Des.

399
00:21:42,712 --> 00:21:45,994
He always drinks rum, not vodka,

400
00:21:46,019 --> 00:21:49,346
and there is no number plate
on the house at Melrose Avenue.

401
00:21:49,531 --> 00:21:51,090
There never has been.

402
00:21:51,115 --> 00:21:53,479
I dunno, I thought there was.

403
00:21:53,504 --> 00:21:56,783
Mm, but you seemed so
sure of the details before.

404
00:21:56,808 --> 00:21:58,169
And why might that be?

405
00:21:58,194 --> 00:22:02,593
Why might someone go to the trouble
of furnishing their testimony

406
00:22:02,618 --> 00:22:05,737
with a great deal of specific detail

407
00:22:05,762 --> 00:22:08,538
that seems to be pulled from thin air?

408
00:22:08,563 --> 00:22:11,428
I put it to you, Mr Stewart,
that your testimony to this court

409
00:22:11,453 --> 00:22:13,414
is nothing more than a pack of lies,

410
00:22:13,439 --> 00:22:16,811
dreamt up to satisfy
a tabloid newspaper.

411
00:22:18,162 --> 00:22:20,723
Well, Mr Stewart?

412
00:22:21,365 --> 00:22:23,764
Have you sold your story?

413
00:22:24,537 --> 00:22:28,361
Er... Y... Yes.

414
00:22:28,962 --> 00:22:31,666
No further questions, my Lord.

415
00:22:34,139 --> 00:22:35,460
How dare he!

416
00:22:35,485 --> 00:22:37,548
Standing up there in
that ridiculous suit,

417
00:22:37,573 --> 00:22:39,173
spouting those lies.

418
00:22:39,198 --> 00:22:41,837
So you're saying that
Douglas Stewart is lying?

419
00:22:41,862 --> 00:22:43,981
That you didn't try and kill him?

420
00:22:44,006 --> 00:22:46,571
Yes, I did. But not as he described it.

421
00:22:46,596 --> 00:22:49,110
This is about absolute truth, Brian.

422
00:22:49,446 --> 00:22:51,978
It has to be,
otherwise we don't get any answers.

423
00:22:52,597 --> 00:22:54,656
You cannot possibly believe

424
00:22:54,681 --> 00:22:57,273
that what you put him through
out there was justified.

425
00:22:57,298 --> 00:22:59,546
What are you getting so agitated about?

426
00:22:59,571 --> 00:23:02,493
I'm giving you a wonderful
final act for your book.

427
00:23:03,056 --> 00:23:05,071
Like you said about the book, Brian,

428
00:23:05,096 --> 00:23:07,507
it's not up to us to make
subjective decisions.

429
00:23:07,532 --> 00:23:09,478
We have to remain
objective in all of this.

430
00:23:09,503 --> 00:23:12,220
Thus, it is up to the jury to decide

431
00:23:12,245 --> 00:23:13,892
whether I'm just bad...

432
00:23:13,917 --> 00:23:15,884
or outrageously bad.

433
00:23:24,687 --> 00:23:26,808
- See you back in chambers.
- Thank you.

434
00:23:26,902 --> 00:23:28,557
Did you know he'd sold
his story to the press?

435
00:23:28,581 --> 00:23:29,595
Course I didn't!

436
00:23:29,620 --> 00:23:32,380
We're lucky the judge didn't strike
his testimony from the record.

437
00:23:32,748 --> 00:23:34,923
It can't have harmed us
that much, right?

438
00:23:35,274 --> 00:23:37,649
Stewart's credibility is gone,
his testimony is now useless.

439
00:23:37,674 --> 00:23:38,874
We're in a lot of trouble.

440
00:23:38,899 --> 00:23:40,056
Surely we still have enough?

441
00:23:40,081 --> 00:23:42,722
I mean, we have the tie with the
knotted rope, and Duffey's knives.

442
00:23:42,747 --> 00:23:44,571
All those show premeditation to murder.

443
00:23:44,596 --> 00:23:46,291
Peter, physical evidence
is all very good and well,

444
00:23:46,315 --> 00:23:47,571
but it's also circumstantial.

445
00:23:47,596 --> 00:23:49,126
We had an eye witness, a survivor,

446
00:23:49,151 --> 00:23:51,735
and without that,
we're significantly weaker.

447
00:23:52,430 --> 00:23:53,759
Sorry.

448
00:24:08,966 --> 00:24:10,524
Hello, Carl.

449
00:24:10,910 --> 00:24:12,271
Can I come in?

450
00:24:22,519 --> 00:24:24,239
How have you been?

451
00:24:25,569 --> 00:24:27,569
Things keep coming back to me.

452
00:24:29,364 --> 00:24:31,163
What kind of things?

453
00:24:34,673 --> 00:24:36,673
He said he liked my shoes.

454
00:24:41,529 --> 00:24:42,809
Thank you.

455
00:24:46,723 --> 00:24:50,924
The doctor said it was
all nightmares, caused...

456
00:24:52,923 --> 00:24:56,963
I'd had a bit of a hard
time with an ex of mine.

457
00:24:58,610 --> 00:25:01,531
They even put me on tablets
to block everything out.

458
00:25:08,521 --> 00:25:10,841
Listen, Carl, um...

459
00:25:13,188 --> 00:25:15,388
The trial isn't going how we'd hoped.

460
00:25:15,669 --> 00:25:18,138
We think your testimony
could be crucial.

461
00:25:18,163 --> 00:25:20,075
But I've already given my statement.

462
00:25:20,540 --> 00:25:22,200
The man said that would be enough.

463
00:25:22,225 --> 00:25:25,586
I know, but we need you
to give it in court.

464
00:25:26,546 --> 00:25:27,872
What, with him there?

465
00:25:27,897 --> 00:25:30,388
- You wouldn't have to be close to him.
- No, I can't.

466
00:25:30,413 --> 00:25:34,075
- Carl...
- He killed me, Mr Jay.

467
00:25:34,277 --> 00:25:37,997
And then he... brought me back to life.

468
00:25:38,568 --> 00:25:41,450
I can't imagine what
you've been through, Carl.

469
00:25:42,025 --> 00:25:43,810
I really can't.

470
00:25:44,904 --> 00:25:46,575
But please believe me,

471
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,521
if he gets a lesser sentence,
you'll find no peace.

472
00:25:49,896 --> 00:25:52,295
I'm sorry. I can't...

473
00:25:54,151 --> 00:25:57,072
be in the same room as him.

474
00:25:58,528 --> 00:26:00,357
I can't go back there.

475
00:26:02,626 --> 00:26:04,943
Then they'll subpoena you anyway.

476
00:26:04,968 --> 00:26:07,248
You'll be forced to testify.

477
00:26:10,408 --> 00:26:12,607
So I don't have a choice?

478
00:26:33,063 --> 00:26:35,739
I swear by Almighty God that
the evidence I shall give

479
00:26:35,764 --> 00:26:39,263
shall be the truth, the whole
truth and nothing by the truth.

480
00:26:40,467 --> 00:26:42,396
Could you recount, Mr Stottor,

481
00:26:42,421 --> 00:26:45,122
the events of that night in April 1982,

482
00:26:45,147 --> 00:26:46,586
when you met the defendant?

483
00:26:52,353 --> 00:26:56,321
Where, for example,
did you meet Mr Nilsen?

484
00:26:56,458 --> 00:26:58,505
In The Black Cap, Camden.

485
00:26:58,739 --> 00:27:00,325
I was depressed.

486
00:27:00,630 --> 00:27:03,372
I'd just broken up with someone.

487
00:27:03,397 --> 00:27:06,397
Speak up, please, Mr Stottor.

488
00:27:10,264 --> 00:27:11,743
He was nice to me.

489
00:27:12,122 --> 00:27:14,568
In what sense was he nice?

490
00:27:14,787 --> 00:27:17,794
He bought me drinks.

491
00:27:17,819 --> 00:27:21,019
Er... He asked me about my family.

492
00:27:21,386 --> 00:27:23,786
He asked if you had family?

493
00:27:23,906 --> 00:27:28,626
Yes, and then he invited me
back to his flat for a drink.

494
00:27:29,355 --> 00:27:32,935
Um... We just drank
a lot and then he said

495
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,411
I could go to sleep on his bed.

496
00:27:35,436 --> 00:27:38,216
And then he warned me not to get caught

497
00:27:38,241 --> 00:27:40,521
in the zip of the sleeping bag.

498
00:27:40,702 --> 00:27:41,982
Why do you think that was?

499
00:27:42,007 --> 00:27:44,167
Was it perhaps because
he was planning an alibi

500
00:27:44,192 --> 00:27:46,419
- in case you managed to escape?
- Objection, my Lord.

501
00:27:46,444 --> 00:27:48,685
- Leading.
- Sustained.

502
00:27:48,774 --> 00:27:50,974
Tell us what happened next.

503
00:27:57,777 --> 00:27:59,841
I woke up and I couldn't breathe.

504
00:28:00,262 --> 00:28:03,802
He was behind me and...

505
00:28:03,827 --> 00:28:06,427
I could feel something
digging into my neck.

506
00:28:07,904 --> 00:28:10,739
The pressure got worse...

507
00:28:11,092 --> 00:28:13,302
and the pain was unbearable.

508
00:28:13,327 --> 00:28:15,041
I couldn't see,

509
00:28:15,066 --> 00:28:17,966
or speak, or swallow.

510
00:28:17,991 --> 00:28:20,685
And I could hear him saying,
"Keep still".

511
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,013
The next thing I knew, I was in water.

512
00:28:26,061 --> 00:28:29,747
In a bath. Being pushed down.
Again and again.

513
00:28:29,818 --> 00:28:33,817
And I didn't know where I
was or what was happening.

514
00:28:33,842 --> 00:28:37,458
And I swallowed water.

515
00:28:37,885 --> 00:28:41,724
I couldn't resist any more
and I realised...

516
00:28:42,599 --> 00:28:44,911
that I was dying.

517
00:28:46,367 --> 00:28:48,021
Thank you, Mr Stottor.

518
00:28:48,046 --> 00:28:49,864
No further questions, my Lord.

519
00:28:50,144 --> 00:28:53,857
You have an alter-ego,
Mr Stottor, do you not?

520
00:28:54,396 --> 00:28:56,555
Khara Le Fox.

521
00:28:56,724 --> 00:28:58,435
A drag act.

522
00:28:58,460 --> 00:29:00,544
You're a female impersonator.

523
00:29:00,569 --> 00:29:02,161
I used to be, yes.

524
00:29:02,186 --> 00:29:04,950
You've already been asked, Mr Stottor,

525
00:29:04,975 --> 00:29:06,786
if you could speak up

526
00:29:06,811 --> 00:29:09,161
for the benefit of the court?

527
00:29:09,505 --> 00:29:10,645
Yes.

528
00:29:11,631 --> 00:29:13,106
But...

529
00:29:13,679 --> 00:29:18,198
since the attack,
I'm not able to sing any more.

530
00:29:18,223 --> 00:29:21,384
And you had several
relationships with men,

531
00:29:21,409 --> 00:29:24,641
including one which became abusive.

532
00:29:24,666 --> 00:29:28,472
Your night with Nilsen was, therefore,

533
00:29:28,497 --> 00:29:31,528
not your first violent
homosexual encounter...

534
00:29:31,553 --> 00:29:34,138
My Lord, I must object
to this line of questioning.

535
00:29:34,163 --> 00:29:36,442
A history of deviant encounters

536
00:29:36,467 --> 00:29:39,802
raises the possibility of
a sex game gone wrong, my Lord.

537
00:29:39,827 --> 00:29:42,903
Sustained. Move on, Mr Lawrence.

538
00:29:43,361 --> 00:29:45,950
Now, could you tell us, Mr Stottor,

539
00:29:45,975 --> 00:29:49,465
where you woke up after
you had been in the bath?

540
00:29:50,427 --> 00:29:51,666
On the bed.

541
00:29:51,705 --> 00:29:55,465
On the bed. And was
the room warm or cold?

542
00:29:55,942 --> 00:29:57,075
Warm.

543
00:29:57,100 --> 00:29:59,278
Nilsen had heated the room, had he not?

544
00:29:59,303 --> 00:30:02,661
He had put on all the
bars on the electric fire.

545
00:30:03,871 --> 00:30:06,791
Yes, I suppose so.

546
00:30:06,887 --> 00:30:10,348
And how long after
you woke up did you leave the flat?

547
00:30:10,373 --> 00:30:15,270
Well, I kept falling asleep,
so maybe one or two days.

548
00:30:15,295 --> 00:30:16,989
One or two days.

549
00:30:17,014 --> 00:30:20,364
Did Nilsen keep you under duress?

550
00:30:20,389 --> 00:30:25,583
No, but I was very confused...

551
00:30:25,708 --> 00:30:27,911
and also in a lot of pain.

552
00:30:27,936 --> 00:30:29,333
Did he, in fact,

553
00:30:29,358 --> 00:30:33,358
walk you to the tube station
when you wanted to go?

554
00:30:34,195 --> 00:30:35,314
Yes.

555
00:30:35,339 --> 00:30:39,256
This supposedly cold
and calculating killer,

556
00:30:39,281 --> 00:30:41,623
with every opportunity
to finish the job,

557
00:30:41,648 --> 00:30:45,545
instead let you sleep
in a warm bed for days,

558
00:30:45,570 --> 00:30:47,998
before seeing you home safely.

559
00:30:48,023 --> 00:30:51,263
In fact, aside from the incident itself,

560
00:30:51,288 --> 00:30:55,943
did he not show you more care
and kindness that evening

561
00:30:55,968 --> 00:30:59,873
than anyone else in your life
had done for a very long time?

562
00:31:02,353 --> 00:31:03,792
Yes.

563
00:31:06,442 --> 00:31:08,402
That's what I can't understand.

564
00:31:09,536 --> 00:31:11,895
Is he my murderer or my saviour?

565
00:31:13,126 --> 00:31:17,334
How peculiar that is.

566
00:31:18,540 --> 00:31:20,787
No further questions, my Lord.

567
00:31:22,407 --> 00:31:24,647
You may step down, Mr Stottor.

568
00:31:30,186 --> 00:31:31,666
You did really well in there.

569
00:31:31,928 --> 00:31:33,059
Listen, Carl...

570
00:31:33,084 --> 00:31:34,561
I want to go home now.

571
00:31:37,609 --> 00:31:40,443
He should have killed you, you queer!

572
00:32:03,346 --> 00:32:04,818
Mr Jay...

573
00:32:12,812 --> 00:32:15,303
I feel I owe you an apology.

574
00:32:17,049 --> 00:32:18,740
You were right.

575
00:32:19,612 --> 00:32:21,061
He's not insane.

576
00:32:21,780 --> 00:32:24,904
He knew exactly what he was doing.

577
00:32:25,810 --> 00:32:30,369
As much then as he does now.

578
00:33:23,982 --> 00:33:25,462
Detective, are you confident?

579
00:33:25,487 --> 00:33:27,886
Do you think you'll get justice
for the victims, Detective?

580
00:33:28,349 --> 00:33:30,709
In the following days
you interviewed him at length.

581
00:33:30,734 --> 00:33:32,145
Is that correct?

582
00:33:32,178 --> 00:33:35,279
Yes, we interviewed
him for a total of 31 hours.

583
00:33:35,304 --> 00:33:36,745
And in those 31 hours,

584
00:33:36,770 --> 00:33:40,251
did Mr Nilsen ever mention
visions or voices in his head

585
00:33:40,276 --> 00:33:42,709
- telling him to commit his crimes?
- No.

586
00:33:42,734 --> 00:33:43,990
Did he ever show any signs at all

587
00:33:44,014 --> 00:33:46,139
of being out of his mind, so to speak,

588
00:33:46,164 --> 00:33:48,147
or mentally unwell in any way?

589
00:33:48,186 --> 00:33:49,938
No. Quite the opposite, in fact.

590
00:33:49,963 --> 00:33:53,106
He seemed... calm.

591
00:33:53,300 --> 00:33:55,808
Collected. In control.

592
00:33:55,833 --> 00:33:58,073
- Hardly a madman.
- No.

593
00:33:58,298 --> 00:34:00,018
Detective Chief Inspector Jay,

594
00:34:00,043 --> 00:34:01,235
could you please tell the court,

595
00:34:01,259 --> 00:34:03,521
for how long have you
been a police officer?

596
00:34:03,691 --> 00:34:05,375
Almost 23 years.

597
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,512
And based on those years of experience,

598
00:34:07,537 --> 00:34:11,049
what is your professional
opinion of Dennis Nilsen?

599
00:34:13,580 --> 00:34:16,397
I've seen criminals in
all shapes and sizes.

600
00:34:17,619 --> 00:34:18,734
When they're on remand,

601
00:34:18,759 --> 00:34:21,568
they ask to be visited
by all sorts of people,

602
00:34:21,863 --> 00:34:24,792
priests, rabbis, imams.

603
00:34:25,190 --> 00:34:28,194
I even had a fella who
asked for a shaman.

604
00:34:29,006 --> 00:34:33,017
Because most of them are
just wanting forgiveness.

605
00:34:34,930 --> 00:34:36,333
Mr Nilsen's only visitor

606
00:34:36,358 --> 00:34:38,713
in the eight months
whilst he was on remand

607
00:34:39,050 --> 00:34:40,666
was a biographer.

608
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,467
In my opinion, he's a remorseless coward

609
00:34:45,492 --> 00:34:48,713
who killed innocent and
vulnerable men as they slept.

610
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:51,823
Thank you, Detective Chief Inspector.

611
00:34:51,848 --> 00:34:53,627
No further questions, my Lord.

612
00:34:54,197 --> 00:34:56,063
Detective Chief Inspector,

613
00:34:56,088 --> 00:35:00,552
you say you interviewed
Nilsen for 31 hours, yes?

614
00:35:00,577 --> 00:35:01,577
That's right.

615
00:35:01,602 --> 00:35:05,403
In all that time of him
talking almost incessantly,

616
00:35:05,428 --> 00:35:10,147
did he ever mention
planning the murders at all?

617
00:35:11,451 --> 00:35:12,680
No.

618
00:35:13,123 --> 00:35:15,140
No further questions, my Lord.

619
00:35:15,405 --> 00:35:17,008
You may step down, Officer.

620
00:35:17,207 --> 00:35:18,393
Thank you.

621
00:35:19,871 --> 00:35:22,356
We have an old Latin phrase in the law,

622
00:35:22,381 --> 00:35:24,224
"Res ipsa loquitur",

623
00:35:24,249 --> 00:35:26,333
"The act speaks for itself."

624
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,975
What sort of man kills people,

625
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,777
lives with their bodies
rotting under the floorboards,

626
00:35:31,802 --> 00:35:35,669
and flushes pieces of
them down the lavatory?

627
00:35:35,694 --> 00:35:40,146
Do these seem to you the actions
of a man in his right mind?

628
00:35:40,410 --> 00:35:43,215
If you think, as we invite you to think,

629
00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:45,360
and as the evidence surely shows,

630
00:35:45,385 --> 00:35:49,337
that these crimes were not
planned or premeditated,

631
00:35:49,362 --> 00:35:53,031
but were due to Nilsen's
seriously abnormal personality

632
00:35:53,056 --> 00:35:54,331
and way of thinking,

633
00:35:54,356 --> 00:35:57,481
then you will find him
not guilty of murder,

634
00:35:57,506 --> 00:36:02,022
but guilty of manslaughter by
way of diminished responsibility.

635
00:36:02,163 --> 00:36:05,444
That is the verdict which
we invite you to return.

636
00:36:08,298 --> 00:36:10,059
What's taking them so long?

637
00:36:11,413 --> 00:36:14,473
Same again? Wee ones?

638
00:36:37,265 --> 00:36:39,146
Madam Foreman of the jury.

639
00:36:40,765 --> 00:36:43,725
Have you reached verdicts
on which you are all agreed?

640
00:36:44,405 --> 00:36:46,041
No, we have not.

641
00:36:47,729 --> 00:36:51,738
Might you reach a verdict if
the court sits until early evening?

642
00:36:51,988 --> 00:36:54,110
I don't believe so, your Honour.

643
00:36:54,135 --> 00:36:56,610
Very well. You will retire overnight.

644
00:36:56,635 --> 00:36:58,635
The court will reconvene in the morning

645
00:36:58,660 --> 00:37:01,419
where I will accept a majority verdict.

646
00:37:08,343 --> 00:37:09,864
More time's now being spent

647
00:37:09,889 --> 00:37:12,485
on what's possibly
wrong with Dennis Nilsen

648
00:37:12,510 --> 00:37:14,391
than what he's actually done.

649
00:37:14,551 --> 00:37:18,891
A man who has described himself as
the "murderer of the century".

650
00:37:18,916 --> 00:37:22,946
A defence psychiatrist said Nilsen
acted as if he were the judge,

651
00:37:22,971 --> 00:37:25,611
judging this case of an infamous crime.

652
00:37:25,636 --> 00:37:26,689
He shows off.

653
00:37:26,714 --> 00:37:30,098
He really believes he is the most
important person of the century.

654
00:37:30,123 --> 00:37:33,941
The defence expert found another
way of describing Nilsen's mind.

655
00:37:33,966 --> 00:37:36,192
"His personality was like his house.

656
00:37:36,217 --> 00:37:38,593
"It looked perfectly all
right from the outside,

657
00:37:38,618 --> 00:37:41,434
"but perhaps there was something
of a funny smell about it,

658
00:37:41,459 --> 00:37:43,245
"and when you looked
under the floorboards,

659
00:37:43,270 --> 00:37:45,151
"you would find horrors."

660
00:37:45,657 --> 00:37:47,400
The jury is returning.

661
00:38:15,572 --> 00:38:17,769
Would the foreman of
the jury please stand?

662
00:38:20,417 --> 00:38:21,817
Madam Foreman,

663
00:38:21,842 --> 00:38:24,473
do you have a majority on your verdicts?

664
00:38:24,965 --> 00:38:26,256
We do.

665
00:38:26,700 --> 00:38:29,758
On the charge of the
murder of Stephen Sinclair,

666
00:38:29,783 --> 00:38:31,783
how do you find the defendant?

667
00:38:33,098 --> 00:38:34,417
Guilty.

668
00:38:35,468 --> 00:38:38,692
On the charge of the murder
of Kenneth Ockenden,

669
00:38:38,806 --> 00:38:40,581
how do you find the defendant?

670
00:38:40,765 --> 00:38:41,938
Guilty.

671
00:38:41,977 --> 00:38:44,937
On the charge of
the murder of John Howlett,

672
00:38:45,335 --> 00:38:47,428
how do you find the defendant?

673
00:38:47,453 --> 00:38:48,464
Guilty.

674
00:38:48,489 --> 00:38:51,107
On the charge of
the murder of Martyn Duffey,

675
00:38:51,132 --> 00:38:52,862
how do you find the defendant?

676
00:38:52,887 --> 00:38:54,317
Guilty.

677
00:38:54,342 --> 00:38:57,290
On the charge of
the murder of Billy Sutherland,

678
00:38:57,315 --> 00:38:59,236
how do you find the defendant?

679
00:38:59,261 --> 00:39:00,622
Guilty.

680
00:39:00,647 --> 00:39:02,918
On the charge of
the murder of Malcolm Barlow,

681
00:39:02,946 --> 00:39:04,488
how do you find the defendant?

682
00:39:04,513 --> 00:39:05,979
Guilty.

683
00:39:06,004 --> 00:39:09,580
On the charge of the attempted
murder of Douglas Stewart,

684
00:39:09,605 --> 00:39:11,221
how do you find the defendant?

685
00:39:11,246 --> 00:39:12,556
Guilty.

686
00:39:12,890 --> 00:39:16,169
On the charge of the attempted
murder of Paul Nobbs,

687
00:39:16,402 --> 00:39:18,522
how do you find the defendant?

688
00:39:18,683 --> 00:39:19,962
Guilty.

689
00:39:21,819 --> 00:39:24,019
Dennis Andrew Nilsen,

690
00:39:24,044 --> 00:39:27,030
your victims were innocent young men,

691
00:39:27,055 --> 00:39:30,269
guilty only of accepting
your hospitality,

692
00:39:30,294 --> 00:39:35,169
whereupon you ended
their lives cruelly and callously,

693
00:39:35,194 --> 00:39:39,429
for reasons that will
remain known only to you.

694
00:39:40,753 --> 00:39:44,898
The sentence for murder is fixed in law.

695
00:39:44,923 --> 00:39:46,922
It is imprisonment for life,

696
00:39:46,947 --> 00:39:49,746
and that is the sentence
which I pass on you

697
00:39:49,771 --> 00:39:53,264
on each count of this indictment.

698
00:39:55,064 --> 00:39:56,624
Take him down.

699
00:40:27,434 --> 00:40:29,550
Mr Jay. Well done.

700
00:40:29,575 --> 00:40:31,574
It went down to the wire
at the end, didn't it?

701
00:40:31,599 --> 00:40:33,413
You must be pleased it's over.

702
00:40:35,598 --> 00:40:38,679
If at any time in the future
you remember any more names...

703
00:40:40,406 --> 00:40:41,846
please write to me.

704
00:40:42,626 --> 00:40:44,486
I promise you'll be the first to know.

705
00:40:45,327 --> 00:40:46,929
I think the jury got it
right in the end.

706
00:40:46,954 --> 00:40:48,779
- Yeah.
- I don't think I'm mad.

707
00:40:49,785 --> 00:40:52,506
If you hadn't caught me that day...

708
00:40:54,485 --> 00:40:57,372
it'd be 115, not 15.

709
00:40:58,649 --> 00:41:00,489
I could never have stopped.

710
00:41:03,599 --> 00:41:04,918
Okay.

711
00:41:06,372 --> 00:41:07,976
Good luck.

712
00:41:38,090 --> 00:41:39,891
What will you do with it all?

713
00:41:39,916 --> 00:41:43,992
Oh, I don't know.
Chuck most of it, probably.

714
00:41:49,134 --> 00:41:51,676
Mr Jay... um...

715
00:41:51,826 --> 00:41:53,947
do you mind if I ask you a question?

716
00:41:54,870 --> 00:41:56,069
Go on.

717
00:41:56,357 --> 00:42:00,958
When you first met him,
did you believe him straight away?

718
00:42:02,686 --> 00:42:04,162
Yes, I did.

719
00:42:05,332 --> 00:42:07,202
What went through your
mind at that moment?

720
00:42:07,227 --> 00:42:09,386
Well, I thought, um...

721
00:42:14,634 --> 00:42:16,194
Honestly?

722
00:42:19,830 --> 00:42:22,591
The first thing I thought was,
"I hope that I'm up to this."

723
00:42:22,616 --> 00:42:25,096
Don't put that in your book.

724
00:42:26,375 --> 00:42:28,055
You have my word.

725
00:42:31,190 --> 00:42:33,857
- And about my book...
- No, look, it's fine.

726
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,311
We both had our way of looking at this.

727
00:42:42,905 --> 00:42:46,066
Well, what will they do with this place?

728
00:42:46,582 --> 00:42:48,495
I don't know.

729
00:42:49,621 --> 00:42:52,273
Sell it or rent it out, I'd imagine.

730
00:42:53,218 --> 00:42:55,838
Who'd want to live here? I mean, it's...

731
00:42:56,554 --> 00:42:59,723
There's the smell for one thing.

732
00:43:01,735 --> 00:43:03,473
D'you know the worst thing?

733
00:43:05,972 --> 00:43:08,093
I don't smell it any more.

734
00:43:14,022 --> 00:43:15,823
I'll see you outside.

735
00:43:28,457 --> 00:43:30,959
So, how have you been?

736
00:43:31,016 --> 00:43:32,166
Ah, you know.

737
00:43:32,858 --> 00:43:35,930
Adjusting to being
a permanent resident, and all.

738
00:43:36,654 --> 00:43:38,800
Apart from that, not too bad.

739
00:43:39,331 --> 00:43:41,291
I read your book. My book.

740
00:43:41,459 --> 00:43:42,784
What did you think?

741
00:43:42,815 --> 00:43:46,576
To be honest, Brian,
I found it absolutely terrifying.

742
00:43:48,141 --> 00:43:49,766
But it's good, yeah.

743
00:43:49,791 --> 00:43:51,513
Much better than I expected.

744
00:43:51,734 --> 00:43:53,701
Of course, I have some thoughts.

745
00:43:55,701 --> 00:43:57,863
Please don't be discouraged
by my observations.

746
00:43:57,888 --> 00:44:00,881
I've lost none of my respect
or admiration for you,

747
00:44:00,906 --> 00:44:02,238
or your work.

748
00:44:08,041 --> 00:44:09,972
Oh, well, thank you. Um...

749
00:44:10,371 --> 00:44:12,394
I'm sure it'll be very helpful.

750
00:44:12,535 --> 00:44:15,175
My biggest concern is you
didn't name any of the victims.

751
00:44:15,377 --> 00:44:17,969
No, I-I wanted to respect their privacy.

752
00:44:18,228 --> 00:44:20,874
Well, I think it's disrespectful
not naming them.

753
00:44:22,136 --> 00:44:23,381
I robbed them of their life.

754
00:44:23,406 --> 00:44:25,270
Please don't rob them
of their identities.

755
00:44:27,432 --> 00:44:29,283
And the title,

756
00:44:30,292 --> 00:44:32,675
Killing For Company, is a little...

757
00:44:33,265 --> 00:44:34,461
Ah.

758
00:44:34,958 --> 00:44:36,804
It should just be Nilsen.

759
00:44:37,405 --> 00:44:38,964
No.

760
00:44:39,075 --> 00:44:40,256
Why not?

761
00:44:41,050 --> 00:44:42,678
Book is about me, after all.

762
00:44:42,703 --> 00:44:44,745
I'm not going to call it Nilsen.

763
00:44:44,770 --> 00:44:47,443
This isn't your book.
It's not about you.

764
00:44:47,946 --> 00:44:50,043
It's about how someone
like you came to be.

765
00:44:50,068 --> 00:44:51,989
I told you when we first met

766
00:44:52,014 --> 00:44:55,675
that I wasn't going to use
grisly or emotive adjectives,

767
00:44:55,700 --> 00:44:57,692
and I have stuck to my word.

768
00:44:58,665 --> 00:45:00,682
But make no mistake,

769
00:45:00,707 --> 00:45:02,735
this isn't a celebration.

770
00:45:03,688 --> 00:45:05,889
It's a warning.

771
00:45:10,147 --> 00:45:12,970
You know, there were only
12 victims, not 15.

772
00:45:15,908 --> 00:45:19,007
When I sat in the back of the police car
the night of my arrest,

773
00:45:19,032 --> 00:45:20,919
they asked me how many there were,
and I wasn't very sure,

774
00:45:20,943 --> 00:45:23,396
so I just gave them
a figure, "15 or 16".

775
00:45:25,404 --> 00:45:28,389
And three... three of those
victims were invented,

776
00:45:29,315 --> 00:45:32,651
just to complement the continuity
of evidence for the police.

777
00:45:32,676 --> 00:45:34,396
Keep them happy.

778
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,840
Everybody has had a chance to
write their version of my story.

779
00:45:38,865 --> 00:45:40,371
When's it my turn?

780
00:45:48,815 --> 00:45:51,656
I'll send you a copy
when it's published.

781
00:45:52,543 --> 00:45:54,341
Come and see me again.

782
00:46:08,666 --> 00:46:13,219
_

783
00:46:13,503 --> 00:46:18,702
_

784
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:28,844
_

785
00:46:29,055 --> 00:46:34,646
_

786
00:46:36,986 --> 00:46:39,284
_

787
00:46:39,351 --> 00:46:41,323
_

788
00:46:41,517 --> 00:46:45,527
_

789
00:46:45,729 --> 00:46:50,200
_

790
00:46:52,426 --> 00:46:54,540
_

791
00:46:54,693 --> 00:46:56,500
_

792
00:46:56,598 --> 00:46:58,381
_

793
00:47:08,869 --> 00:47:11,869
Synced & corrected by QueenMaddie
www.addic7ed.com