1 00:00:10,414 --> 00:00:12,897 Can you offer any hope for the unemployed? 2 00:00:13,004 --> 00:00:14,632 I think it's going to be very difficult 3 00:00:14,657 --> 00:00:17,444 to get it down significantly in 1983. 4 00:00:18,065 --> 00:00:20,030 - _ - Drifters who've strayed to London 5 00:00:20,055 --> 00:00:22,921 in the expectation of streets paved with gold 6 00:00:22,946 --> 00:00:26,108 and beacon lights that would guide them to prosperity. 7 00:00:26,133 --> 00:00:28,013 You go to the Job Centre, "Where do you live?" 8 00:00:28,038 --> 00:00:31,179 "No fixed abode." "Sorry, we can't help you with a job." 9 00:00:32,289 --> 00:00:34,155 There's a growing army of younger people 10 00:00:34,180 --> 00:00:36,077 looking for work or a new life. 11 00:00:36,102 --> 00:00:38,343 What they need is a secure home and a job, 12 00:00:38,368 --> 00:00:40,147 but often, they're denied either. 13 00:00:40,172 --> 00:00:41,483 The first thing that they find 14 00:00:41,508 --> 00:00:45,155 is that London isn't what it appears to be on television. 15 00:00:45,296 --> 00:00:48,241 They've often deliberately cut all links with the past, 16 00:00:48,266 --> 00:00:49,976 and this makes them an easy target 17 00:00:50,001 --> 00:00:52,765 for exploitation by criminals or conmen. 18 00:00:52,790 --> 00:00:57,190 It's an increasingly violent place, particularly for young people. 19 00:00:59,447 --> 00:01:03,561 Synced & corrected by QueenMaddie www.addic7ed.com 20 00:01:10,827 --> 00:01:13,171 Oh, hi. Come in. 21 00:01:13,196 --> 00:01:15,577 - Thank you. - Love, Tilly's here. 22 00:01:16,841 --> 00:01:19,077 - Just through here. - Thanks. 23 00:01:20,604 --> 00:01:24,364 Hey, Peter. Sorry to come so early. 24 00:01:24,818 --> 00:01:27,530 Er, just... give me two secs. 25 00:01:43,736 --> 00:01:45,476 There we go. 26 00:01:46,463 --> 00:01:49,296 They said there should be some cricket pads. 27 00:01:49,405 --> 00:01:51,046 Well, it's February. 28 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,265 The boys won't need them till the summer term. 29 00:01:54,526 --> 00:01:56,846 I'm gonna see them before then, surely. 30 00:01:59,487 --> 00:02:01,087 Let me get them. 31 00:02:02,986 --> 00:02:04,706 I'm sorry, Peter. 32 00:02:06,428 --> 00:02:08,428 It's not your fault. 33 00:02:10,716 --> 00:02:14,671 Thanks. Sorry again for the intrusion. 34 00:02:20,722 --> 00:02:23,202 Till, hang on a minute. 35 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:25,880 Look, I... 36 00:02:27,264 --> 00:02:29,233 I know you're trying to be a good friend to Carol, 37 00:02:29,258 --> 00:02:32,351 and I don't want you to get in the middle. 38 00:02:33,169 --> 00:02:36,601 But... it can't keep going on like this. 39 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:38,851 It's crazy. 40 00:02:39,685 --> 00:02:41,296 Whatever happened between me and her, 41 00:02:41,321 --> 00:02:43,288 the boys have got nothing to do with it. 42 00:02:45,251 --> 00:02:46,960 Please. 43 00:02:49,106 --> 00:02:50,506 I miss 'em. 44 00:02:54,801 --> 00:02:56,521 I'll speak to her. 45 00:02:58,514 --> 00:03:00,074 Thank you. 46 00:03:06,805 --> 00:03:08,186 Morning. 47 00:03:08,344 --> 00:03:10,155 - Anything on the overnight? - Not much. 48 00:03:10,180 --> 00:03:12,921 Another burglary in Wood Green, but that's about it. 49 00:03:12,946 --> 00:03:14,218 Any witnesses? 50 00:03:14,243 --> 00:03:16,643 It was only called in half an hour ago, guv. 51 00:03:16,853 --> 00:03:19,351 Can you take a statement on your way home? 52 00:03:22,179 --> 00:03:24,077 - The boss in? - Yep. 53 00:03:26,362 --> 00:03:27,608 - Guv? - Yeah? 54 00:03:27,633 --> 00:03:28,897 Steve called. 55 00:03:29,137 --> 00:03:32,132 They've found suspected human remains in Muswell Hill. 56 00:03:32,157 --> 00:03:33,663 In a, in a drain. 57 00:03:33,688 --> 00:03:35,936 - Remains? - That's what he said. 58 00:03:39,031 --> 00:03:40,522 Did he give you an address? 59 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,718 Yeah, said 23 Cranley Gardens. 60 00:03:45,326 --> 00:03:48,483 Okay. If he calls again, tell him I'm on my way. 61 00:03:49,846 --> 00:03:51,272 I thought you were giving up. 62 00:03:51,297 --> 00:03:52,843 I am. 63 00:04:15,453 --> 00:04:17,483 Mr Cattran called us in. 64 00:04:17,791 --> 00:04:19,241 - All right? - How do you do? 65 00:04:19,873 --> 00:04:22,546 I was telling the officer, I was called here last night 66 00:04:22,571 --> 00:04:24,601 because of a blockage. There was a lot more, 67 00:04:24,626 --> 00:04:26,866 but when I got back this morning, it had gone. 68 00:04:28,742 --> 00:04:31,108 - Could it have unblocked itself? - No way. 69 00:04:31,133 --> 00:04:33,124 You'd have to get in there and clear it by hand. 70 00:04:33,149 --> 00:04:34,890 Plus, one of the ground floor tenants 71 00:04:34,915 --> 00:04:37,186 heard someone rooting around here last night. 72 00:04:43,652 --> 00:04:45,249 Do you know how far the blockage goes up? 73 00:04:45,273 --> 00:04:47,600 About halfway. But the middle flat's unoccupied, 74 00:04:47,625 --> 00:04:49,764 so it must have come from the top floor flat. 75 00:04:49,789 --> 00:04:52,795 He's the one that reckoned it was KFC last night. 76 00:04:53,118 --> 00:04:55,107 That has to be human, right? 77 00:04:56,973 --> 00:04:59,732 - Thank you, Mr Cattran. - That it? 78 00:05:00,367 --> 00:05:03,670 Er, we'll contact you to come down the station for a statement. 79 00:05:03,841 --> 00:05:05,615 Right. 80 00:05:07,821 --> 00:05:09,709 Do you think he wanted a medal? 81 00:05:11,612 --> 00:05:13,310 What do you reckon? 82 00:05:13,922 --> 00:05:15,882 Well, let's get them down to pathology, 83 00:05:15,907 --> 00:05:17,779 confirm they're human. 84 00:05:18,549 --> 00:05:21,100 - Is he home? - At work, apparently. 85 00:05:21,125 --> 00:05:23,162 The Job Centre, in Kentish Town. 86 00:05:24,443 --> 00:05:26,443 What do you want to do? 87 00:05:28,634 --> 00:05:30,326 Well, I guess we wait. 88 00:05:30,351 --> 00:05:31,446 Aye. 89 00:05:31,471 --> 00:05:33,471 I knew you were gonna say that. 90 00:06:11,095 --> 00:06:12,521 Dennis Nilsen? 91 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:13,912 All right? 92 00:06:13,937 --> 00:06:16,232 My name is Detective Chief Inspector Peter Jay 93 00:06:16,257 --> 00:06:18,709 and this is Detective Inspector Steve McCusker. 94 00:06:18,956 --> 00:06:21,162 We'd like to talk to you about your drains. 95 00:06:21,471 --> 00:06:23,959 Since when are the police interested in drains? 96 00:06:25,492 --> 00:06:27,812 Let's talk about that upstairs, shall we? 97 00:06:28,850 --> 00:06:30,370 All right. 98 00:06:32,537 --> 00:06:34,287 What's this about? 99 00:06:34,312 --> 00:06:37,435 Human remains have been found in the drains outside. 100 00:06:37,460 --> 00:06:38,796 Right. 101 00:06:39,703 --> 00:06:41,463 Come on in. 102 00:06:42,790 --> 00:06:45,076 Don't worry, she's very friendly. 103 00:06:52,402 --> 00:06:54,428 Right, don't muck me about. 104 00:06:55,078 --> 00:06:57,078 Where's the rest of the body? 105 00:06:59,035 --> 00:07:00,795 In the cupboard. 106 00:07:19,230 --> 00:07:22,467 Dennis Nilsen, I'm arresting you on the suspicion of murder. 107 00:07:22,734 --> 00:07:25,123 You do not have to say anything, unless you wish to do so, 108 00:07:25,148 --> 00:07:28,123 but what you do say may be given in evidence. 109 00:07:30,181 --> 00:07:32,981 Don't let anyone up there until the pathologist gets here. 110 00:07:48,107 --> 00:07:50,584 So, are we talking about one body or two? 111 00:07:53,505 --> 00:07:57,162 15 or 16... I think. 112 00:08:20,528 --> 00:08:22,310 So, what do we know? 113 00:08:22,335 --> 00:08:24,015 At least one victim. 114 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:26,873 Partial remains found in a bin liner in his cupboard. 115 00:08:26,898 --> 00:08:29,060 Young male, judging by the torso. 116 00:08:29,085 --> 00:08:31,507 Going by the smell in the flat, I'd say there were a lot more. 117 00:08:31,531 --> 00:08:34,326 There's no actual evidence of 16 bodies, is there? 118 00:08:34,351 --> 00:08:36,740 It's off limits till morning. Too damp. 119 00:08:36,765 --> 00:08:37,865 We've secured the scene, 120 00:08:37,890 --> 00:08:40,410 but apparently we risk contamination if we go in too early. 121 00:08:40,435 --> 00:08:43,537 What he was saying in the car was pretty convincing, guv. 122 00:08:43,562 --> 00:08:45,922 Why were you talking to him in the car? 123 00:08:46,066 --> 00:08:47,529 - I was... - What if he says 124 00:08:47,554 --> 00:08:50,014 that confession was given under duress? 125 00:08:50,918 --> 00:08:52,217 If he's telling the truth, 126 00:08:52,242 --> 00:08:54,248 we're gonna have the eyes of the world on us. 127 00:08:54,273 --> 00:08:57,084 We have to do this by the book from now on. 128 00:08:59,529 --> 00:09:03,225 We need him to identify the remains before we can charge him. 129 00:09:03,364 --> 00:09:05,084 What do you reckon? 130 00:09:05,767 --> 00:09:07,428 I think we're gonna get a lot more bees 131 00:09:07,453 --> 00:09:09,386 with honey than with vinegar. 132 00:09:13,336 --> 00:09:16,176 - Sorry for the late call, Ronnie. - No, that's okay. 133 00:09:16,552 --> 00:09:19,053 I'd like a few minutes with my client, if it's possible? 134 00:09:20,162 --> 00:09:21,413 - We're doing it in there, are we? - Yeah. 135 00:09:21,437 --> 00:09:23,917 I thought it'd be a bit more comfortable for everyone. 136 00:09:30,642 --> 00:09:32,310 I'm Ronald Moss... 137 00:09:35,023 --> 00:09:38,343 This evening, two police officers entered your flat. 138 00:09:38,476 --> 00:09:40,876 There, they found the remains of a man. 139 00:09:41,136 --> 00:09:43,136 Do you want to explain that? 140 00:09:44,934 --> 00:09:47,060 In what context? 141 00:09:48,959 --> 00:09:50,759 How did it get there? 142 00:09:50,784 --> 00:09:52,405 Have you searched the rest of the flat yet? 143 00:09:52,429 --> 00:09:54,615 We're in the process of that as we speak. 144 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:59,154 You'll find more in the, er, tea chest in my bedroom, 145 00:09:59,179 --> 00:10:02,904 and in the turned-up drawer in my bathroom. 146 00:10:02,929 --> 00:10:05,123 All in all, the remains of three people. 147 00:10:05,991 --> 00:10:08,021 In the car, you said that there was more. 148 00:10:08,046 --> 00:10:11,592 - I must advise my client... - 195 Melrose Avenue, N2. 149 00:10:11,617 --> 00:10:16,506 There, you'll find the remains of 12 or 13 people dating back to 1978. 150 00:10:18,781 --> 00:10:21,123 It's actually a relief to get this off my chest. 151 00:10:28,246 --> 00:10:29,646 Thank you. 152 00:10:41,294 --> 00:10:43,389 Who do all these remains belong to? 153 00:10:43,414 --> 00:10:46,264 - I need a moment with my client... - It's okay. Er... 154 00:10:46,910 --> 00:10:49,904 I'm afraid I don't remember their names. 155 00:10:50,850 --> 00:10:52,256 None of them? 156 00:10:52,474 --> 00:10:54,896 Well, at the time, I'd only just met them, you know. 157 00:10:54,921 --> 00:10:56,279 Where did you meet them? 158 00:10:56,304 --> 00:10:58,428 All over. Bars, on the street. 159 00:10:58,453 --> 00:11:00,193 Some, I just wanted to give a meal. 160 00:11:00,666 --> 00:11:03,240 London can be a lonely place sometimes. 161 00:11:03,265 --> 00:11:05,178 A friendly face goes a long way. 162 00:11:05,264 --> 00:11:06,944 So, they were homeless? 163 00:11:07,494 --> 00:11:08,865 Er... some. 164 00:11:08,890 --> 00:11:10,935 Because of the drugs, usually. 165 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,935 It really is a disease, it's very sad. 166 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:15,661 And, you know, 167 00:11:15,685 --> 00:11:17,654 this bloody government does nothing for them. 168 00:11:17,904 --> 00:11:20,824 - Were they all male? - Aye. 169 00:11:20,849 --> 00:11:22,256 How old were they? 170 00:11:22,281 --> 00:11:25,076 Well, some looked younger than others. Erm... 171 00:11:25,101 --> 00:11:28,475 - Sorry, I'm not being very helpful. - No, you're doing fine. 172 00:11:29,107 --> 00:11:30,451 How did you kill them? 173 00:11:30,476 --> 00:11:32,029 I strangled them. 174 00:11:32,168 --> 00:11:34,217 Where did these murders take place? 175 00:11:34,242 --> 00:11:35,607 In my house. 176 00:11:35,632 --> 00:11:37,553 Mostly in my bed, to be specific. 177 00:11:37,578 --> 00:11:39,129 So, they came home with you willingly? 178 00:11:39,154 --> 00:11:40,154 Yeah. 179 00:11:42,570 --> 00:11:44,410 Were they all homosexual? 180 00:11:44,435 --> 00:11:45,988 I don't remember asking them. 181 00:11:46,013 --> 00:11:48,453 Are you homosexual, Mr Nilsen? 182 00:11:50,492 --> 00:11:54,019 Well, er... for the sake of convenience, 183 00:11:54,044 --> 00:11:56,168 you should probably class me as homosexual. 184 00:11:56,193 --> 00:11:58,488 If that's actually true, I'm not so sure. 185 00:11:58,513 --> 00:12:02,153 The three in Cranley Gardens, when did these murders take place? 186 00:12:02,315 --> 00:12:05,235 The most recent was three weeks ago. 187 00:12:05,392 --> 00:12:07,058 Erm... 188 00:12:07,083 --> 00:12:09,668 The others, last year sometime. 189 00:12:11,331 --> 00:12:13,269 You kept them for a year? 190 00:12:13,914 --> 00:12:14,914 Aye. 191 00:12:15,371 --> 00:12:16,754 In pieces? 192 00:12:16,786 --> 00:12:20,002 No, no. The dissection's merely for disposal. 193 00:12:20,544 --> 00:12:24,144 It's the dirty platter after the feast, if you like. 194 00:12:24,255 --> 00:12:27,416 In Melrose, it was simple cos it was a ground floor flat, 195 00:12:27,441 --> 00:12:29,841 so there was space under the floor boards for storage 196 00:12:29,866 --> 00:12:33,826 and sole access to a garden when a clearance was called for. 197 00:12:34,010 --> 00:12:38,017 Yeah, no, I remember it, Melrose, when the bodies began to accumulate, 198 00:12:38,042 --> 00:12:40,202 I knew there'd be a smell problem. So... 199 00:12:40,361 --> 00:12:44,860 At the weekend, I'd take up the floorboards, 200 00:12:44,885 --> 00:12:47,758 I'd get blinding drunk, so I could face it, 201 00:12:47,783 --> 00:12:51,789 er, put down sort of, you know, 202 00:12:51,814 --> 00:12:54,164 black plastic, like a bin liner, 203 00:12:54,189 --> 00:12:57,672 for the mess, and then I'd start dissection 204 00:12:57,697 --> 00:12:59,469 on the kitchen floor. 205 00:12:59,548 --> 00:13:03,367 I learnt if you make an incision just below the navel, 206 00:13:03,392 --> 00:13:05,070 you can pretty much get to everything 207 00:13:05,095 --> 00:13:08,031 without having to deal with the rib cage and such. 208 00:13:08,469 --> 00:13:10,774 But it was all trial and error. 209 00:13:11,014 --> 00:13:12,934 You buried them in the garden? 210 00:13:13,098 --> 00:13:15,018 No, I burnt them, er... 211 00:13:15,254 --> 00:13:17,274 I'd wrap them in an old piece of carpet 212 00:13:17,299 --> 00:13:20,539 and throw a tyre on top, hide the smell. 213 00:13:22,010 --> 00:13:26,589 I took no pleasure in cutting up people or, 214 00:13:26,614 --> 00:13:30,000 boiling heads, or burning bodies. 215 00:13:30,025 --> 00:13:32,297 I did it cos I had to, there was no more space. 216 00:13:32,322 --> 00:13:34,922 How many bodies did you have in the house at any one time? 217 00:13:36,517 --> 00:13:38,437 I never did a stock check. 218 00:13:39,555 --> 00:13:41,715 Or asked their names, it seems. 219 00:13:42,395 --> 00:13:44,953 No, no, that I do regret. 220 00:13:44,978 --> 00:13:47,680 Yeah, I wish I could remember their names to tell you now. 221 00:13:47,705 --> 00:13:48,971 I really do. 222 00:13:49,822 --> 00:13:52,313 I have to ask... 223 00:13:52,596 --> 00:13:54,711 why did you do this? 224 00:13:57,834 --> 00:14:00,227 I don't really know. Erm... 225 00:14:02,486 --> 00:14:04,992 I was rather hoping you could tell me that. 226 00:14:21,822 --> 00:14:24,222 Take us through them all, one by one. 227 00:14:24,922 --> 00:14:26,625 With number three, 228 00:14:26,650 --> 00:14:29,242 he's a young-looking man I picked up at Euston Station. 229 00:14:29,267 --> 00:14:31,727 I was out on the piss that night, drinking heavily. 230 00:14:31,752 --> 00:14:33,758 Next morning, he was dead on the floor. 231 00:14:33,783 --> 00:14:36,117 I remember bits and pieces. 232 00:14:36,142 --> 00:14:37,984 I don't remember any violence at all. 233 00:14:38,152 --> 00:14:42,289 Whilst drinking in Soho, I got into a conversation 234 00:14:42,314 --> 00:14:44,875 with this Scottish guy... Number 11 was a skinhead type, 235 00:14:44,900 --> 00:14:47,328 he had "cut here" tattooed on his neck. 236 00:14:47,736 --> 00:14:50,375 He was boasting about his toughness, about his hardness. 237 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,080 After killing him, I just went to bed. 238 00:14:52,341 --> 00:14:55,141 End of day, end of drinking, end of person. 239 00:14:55,166 --> 00:14:56,828 The 12th was a... 240 00:14:56,853 --> 00:14:58,492 I remember being sat on him... 241 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,196 "My legs, I can't move my legs." I called him an ambulance. 242 00:15:01,220 --> 00:15:04,313 Number 14, I made him an omelette, he said he wanted something to eat. 243 00:15:04,444 --> 00:15:07,281 If it was the omelette that killed him or me, I'm not so sure, 244 00:15:07,306 --> 00:15:11,242 but I don't suppose omelettes leave red marks on a neck, do they? 245 00:15:20,832 --> 00:15:22,406 What do you think, guv? 246 00:15:22,715 --> 00:15:25,258 I'm thinking there's a lot of words on those pages, 247 00:15:25,283 --> 00:15:27,523 but not a lot of concrete evidence. 248 00:15:27,716 --> 00:15:29,436 You think he's lying? 249 00:15:30,403 --> 00:15:32,180 About the amount? 250 00:15:32,508 --> 00:15:33,859 Possibly. 251 00:15:34,114 --> 00:15:36,399 I dunno, guv. There's something... 252 00:15:38,687 --> 00:15:40,164 I believe him. 253 00:15:40,321 --> 00:15:43,414 Well, let's get a victim's name and charge him. 254 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,352 Right, I'd better update the yard. 255 00:16:15,467 --> 00:16:16,920 That's it, look surprised. 256 00:16:18,052 --> 00:16:19,367 That's it. 257 00:16:20,530 --> 00:16:22,039 Bring that up a bit. 258 00:16:22,189 --> 00:16:23,570 What's this? 259 00:16:24,371 --> 00:16:27,242 Er, this is the detective. Jay, right? 260 00:16:27,267 --> 00:16:28,961 Charlotte Proctor. 261 00:16:29,648 --> 00:16:31,297 You went to the press? 262 00:16:31,322 --> 00:16:32,938 You seemed like you didn't believe me, 263 00:16:32,963 --> 00:16:34,164 so I had to tell someone. 264 00:16:34,189 --> 00:16:36,820 Can you confirm the remains you found were human? 265 00:16:38,458 --> 00:16:41,391 Detective, have you arrested Mr Nilsen yet? 266 00:17:34,874 --> 00:17:36,188 Guv. 267 00:17:36,555 --> 00:17:38,430 I wouldn't, if I were you. 268 00:17:45,815 --> 00:17:47,615 How didn't we know? 269 00:18:33,137 --> 00:18:36,352 When I got there this morning, there was a journo, 270 00:18:36,377 --> 00:18:38,117 a few doors down from Cranley Gardens 271 00:18:38,142 --> 00:18:39,992 with the drain guy from yesterday. 272 00:18:40,017 --> 00:18:41,728 That didn't take him long, did it? 273 00:18:41,753 --> 00:18:44,961 Right, media blackout from now on, boys. 274 00:18:44,986 --> 00:18:46,961 They get nothing from us. 275 00:18:46,986 --> 00:18:48,625 - Understood? - Yes, guv. 276 00:18:48,650 --> 00:18:51,555 Last thing we need is an early siege before we charge him. 277 00:18:51,580 --> 00:18:53,664 Er, where are we at with everything else? 278 00:18:53,689 --> 00:18:55,508 Chris, did you search his office? 279 00:18:55,712 --> 00:18:57,305 We weren't allowed to. 280 00:18:57,540 --> 00:18:58,664 What do you mean? 281 00:18:58,689 --> 00:19:00,563 His colleagues said they couldn't believe 282 00:19:00,588 --> 00:19:02,938 he would do anything like this, and if we wanted to search 283 00:19:02,963 --> 00:19:04,617 the office, we'd need to get a warrant. 284 00:19:04,642 --> 00:19:06,586 - You're kidding me. - Take down one the bags 285 00:19:06,611 --> 00:19:07,734 we found in his flat, 286 00:19:07,759 --> 00:19:09,391 maybe that would act as a warrant. 287 00:19:09,416 --> 00:19:10,705 Anything else from the lab? 288 00:19:10,730 --> 00:19:13,266 Bowen's confirmed strangulation as the cause of death. 289 00:19:13,291 --> 00:19:14,291 Well, that was quick. 290 00:19:14,316 --> 00:19:17,102 Well, one of the pieces we took down had a ligature mark on it. 291 00:19:17,134 --> 00:19:20,320 - Has he been able to identify anyone? - No, not yet. 292 00:19:20,345 --> 00:19:24,195 So all of this is irrelevant until he gives us a name. 293 00:19:25,611 --> 00:19:27,109 He used to be a policeman. 294 00:19:27,134 --> 00:19:28,514 - What? - Where? 295 00:19:28,539 --> 00:19:31,444 With the Met. Willesden. Left in '73. 296 00:19:31,469 --> 00:19:34,084 - Why did he leave? - Nothing on file. 297 00:19:34,109 --> 00:19:35,592 He just left. 298 00:19:36,145 --> 00:19:37,600 Shit. 299 00:19:37,625 --> 00:19:39,006 Are you fucking with us? 300 00:19:39,031 --> 00:19:41,600 - Mr Chambers... - You're ex-police. 301 00:19:41,625 --> 00:19:43,428 You left that out last night. 302 00:19:43,453 --> 00:19:45,529 I didn't mention it cos it's not relevant. 303 00:19:45,686 --> 00:19:47,115 Not relevant? 304 00:19:47,140 --> 00:19:49,327 No, I wasn't doing this while I was there, so it's not relevant. 305 00:19:49,351 --> 00:19:51,381 Not at the present time, anyhow. 306 00:19:52,426 --> 00:19:54,906 It's in nobody's interest for me to lie. 307 00:19:54,931 --> 00:19:56,350 Why did you leave? 308 00:19:56,459 --> 00:19:57,849 Homophobia. 309 00:19:58,394 --> 00:20:00,537 A name. Right now. 310 00:20:00,562 --> 00:20:02,093 Mr Nilsen, you don't have to say anything. 311 00:20:02,117 --> 00:20:03,834 Like I said to you last night, 312 00:20:04,319 --> 00:20:05,545 the last one was Scottish, 313 00:20:05,570 --> 00:20:07,673 he was out there saying how shite Scotland is in the winter. 314 00:20:07,697 --> 00:20:09,295 A Scottish name. 315 00:20:11,220 --> 00:20:13,475 Stephen. It was Stephen. 316 00:20:13,500 --> 00:20:14,940 Stephen what? 317 00:20:17,816 --> 00:20:19,976 Oh, I'm sorry, I really don't remember. 318 00:20:22,081 --> 00:20:25,186 I think now would be a good time to pause the interview, anyway. 319 00:20:25,211 --> 00:20:26,731 No, let's keep going. 320 00:20:27,496 --> 00:20:31,889 Steve, get me a list of all Stephens reported missing from Scotland. 321 00:20:31,914 --> 00:20:33,608 That's gonna be a pretty long list, guv. 322 00:20:33,633 --> 00:20:35,514 That's all we got. Do it. 323 00:20:38,310 --> 00:20:42,190 I want to help the officers and the men caught up in my mess. 324 00:20:42,215 --> 00:20:44,575 Mr Chambers, may I have a minute with my client? 325 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,467 As I see it, a solicitor is here 326 00:20:46,492 --> 00:20:50,639 to advise and facilitate my legal rights. Am I correct? 327 00:20:51,047 --> 00:20:53,076 Huh? Then your advice should've been 328 00:20:53,101 --> 00:20:55,076 to tell the detectives everything. 329 00:20:55,101 --> 00:20:58,092 There's still a process, Mr Nilsen. 330 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,404 Mr Moss, I won't be needing you any longer. 331 00:21:02,538 --> 00:21:03,897 I don't advise this. 332 00:21:03,922 --> 00:21:05,546 No, it's my final decision. It's the only way 333 00:21:05,570 --> 00:21:08,389 we're gonna get to the bottom of this mess, once and for all. 334 00:21:10,412 --> 00:21:11,951 If you could. 335 00:21:13,538 --> 00:21:15,098 Please? 336 00:21:16,344 --> 00:21:18,014 Mr Chambers. 337 00:21:18,442 --> 00:21:20,122 Ronnie. 338 00:21:27,142 --> 00:21:28,742 Shall we carry on? 339 00:21:31,207 --> 00:21:35,194 I was at McDonald's on the way to Oxford Street station. 340 00:21:35,809 --> 00:21:37,070 He said he hadn't eaten all day. 341 00:21:37,094 --> 00:21:38,894 I mean, what was I meant to say to that? 342 00:21:39,144 --> 00:21:41,304 Erm, he had blond hair... 343 00:21:42,561 --> 00:21:46,240 Well... so did some of the others. 344 00:21:46,743 --> 00:21:49,279 Stephen, blond hair, Scottish... 345 00:21:52,690 --> 00:21:54,928 I can't remember his second name. 346 00:21:55,431 --> 00:21:57,591 Just take your time. 347 00:21:57,865 --> 00:21:59,983 Take us through it again. 348 00:22:00,166 --> 00:22:02,850 You went home. What happened then? 349 00:22:02,875 --> 00:22:04,995 We drank, we laughed. 350 00:22:05,020 --> 00:22:07,795 I poured two large glasses of rum and coke. 351 00:22:07,820 --> 00:22:09,311 He said he didn't like rum. 352 00:22:09,336 --> 00:22:11,670 I said, "Well, you didn't bloody well pay for it, did you?" 353 00:22:12,377 --> 00:22:14,522 Yeah. He had a nice laugh. 354 00:22:15,441 --> 00:22:18,037 I mentioned Tommy, you know the album, Tommy? 355 00:22:18,062 --> 00:22:20,709 He said he'd never heard it. So I put it on... 356 00:22:21,872 --> 00:22:25,117 and watched as he closed his eyes and listened to it. 357 00:22:25,142 --> 00:22:26,695 I thought to myself, you lucky bugger, 358 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:28,844 experiencing that for the first time. 359 00:22:29,491 --> 00:22:31,039 Yeah... 360 00:22:32,610 --> 00:22:35,219 I entertained no thoughts of... 361 00:22:35,687 --> 00:22:36,664 harming him. 362 00:22:36,689 --> 00:22:39,594 But, you know, I had nothing but concern and affection 363 00:22:39,619 --> 00:22:43,289 for his future and the... the pain of his life. 364 00:22:44,212 --> 00:22:46,226 But you did strangle him. 365 00:22:47,278 --> 00:22:50,958 Afterwards, I noticed that his jeans were soaked with urine. 366 00:22:51,780 --> 00:22:55,580 So, I wanted to wash him clean, so I took his clothes off. 367 00:22:55,792 --> 00:22:57,351 And, er... 368 00:22:57,523 --> 00:23:01,109 I remember I had difficulty with his tight, wet jeans, 369 00:23:01,134 --> 00:23:04,140 but soon as he was sat there naked in my armchair. 370 00:23:04,827 --> 00:23:06,789 And he'd only urinated. 371 00:23:07,197 --> 00:23:09,837 He obviously hadn't had a square meal in a few days. 372 00:23:10,612 --> 00:23:15,656 He had deep cuts on both his wrists. They were still open. 373 00:23:16,504 --> 00:23:19,406 So he must have recently tried to commit suicide. 374 00:23:19,932 --> 00:23:25,265 And I very gently carried him through to the bathroom, 375 00:23:25,290 --> 00:23:27,523 and put talc on him to make him look cleaner. 376 00:23:27,548 --> 00:23:29,140 And he did, he looked magnificent. 377 00:23:29,165 --> 00:23:31,539 He was like one of those Michelangelo sculptures. 378 00:23:35,572 --> 00:23:36,852 We need names. 379 00:23:36,877 --> 00:23:40,484 Mm. I know you do, and I'm trying. But some were a long time ago. 380 00:23:40,988 --> 00:23:43,023 Then, stay with the last one. 381 00:23:43,048 --> 00:23:45,984 - I said Stephen. - It's not enough, you know that. 382 00:23:46,009 --> 00:23:48,351 I mean, you remember so many details, 383 00:23:48,376 --> 00:23:50,094 there must have been a time in the evening 384 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,031 he told you his full name. 385 00:23:54,272 --> 00:23:55,734 Look. 386 00:23:55,927 --> 00:23:58,562 All we want to do is corroborate your claims. 387 00:24:01,183 --> 00:24:05,031 It was definitely a Scottish name, we joked about that. It was... 388 00:24:07,541 --> 00:24:09,976 Like Fraser, or... 389 00:24:12,298 --> 00:24:14,734 Stephen... Sinclair, it was. 390 00:24:14,759 --> 00:24:16,367 Sinclair. 391 00:24:18,067 --> 00:24:19,648 You're sure? 392 00:24:19,922 --> 00:24:22,042 Aye. Stephen Sinclair. 393 00:24:23,645 --> 00:24:25,844 If this Stephen Sinclair was a drug addict, 394 00:24:25,869 --> 00:24:27,586 chances are he has a record. 395 00:24:27,611 --> 00:24:29,492 Record will have a photo and fingerprints, 396 00:24:29,517 --> 00:24:31,578 we can match those to what we found at the flat. 397 00:24:31,603 --> 00:24:35,351 He has given us the name, not to mention the torso in his flat. 398 00:24:35,376 --> 00:24:37,851 - Can't we just charge him, guv? - What if he's got it wrong? 399 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,080 Or he's playing with us? 400 00:24:40,105 --> 00:24:42,425 Sinclair walks into our courtroom, alive and well, 401 00:24:42,450 --> 00:24:44,773 and there goes the credibility. You know that. 402 00:24:45,237 --> 00:24:47,508 No mistakes, no shortcuts. 403 00:24:47,533 --> 00:24:49,304 We need to be good police. 404 00:24:49,329 --> 00:24:52,719 Peter, it doesn't feel right giving him the blue ribbon treatment here. 405 00:24:53,848 --> 00:24:56,695 Whilst he's talking, we carry on treating him well. 406 00:24:57,081 --> 00:24:58,289 Understood? 407 00:24:58,314 --> 00:25:00,234 Yes, guv. 408 00:25:18,922 --> 00:25:20,960 Is it necessary to still have Bleep here? 409 00:25:20,985 --> 00:25:22,185 It's been two days. 410 00:25:22,210 --> 00:25:23,843 There's nothing we can do about that. 411 00:25:23,868 --> 00:25:26,164 She's an old dog, sounds like she's in a lot of distress. 412 00:25:26,189 --> 00:25:28,368 Please, she's done nothing wrong. She doesn't deserve this. 413 00:25:28,392 --> 00:25:29,648 I'll see what I can do. 414 00:25:29,673 --> 00:25:32,914 We won't be starting until a bit later this morning, Mr Nilsen, 415 00:25:32,939 --> 00:25:35,398 but Mr Jay thought you might be hungry. 416 00:25:36,585 --> 00:25:38,705 That's kind of him, thank you. 417 00:25:39,161 --> 00:25:42,161 Another thing. Have there been any newspaper reports about me? 418 00:25:43,470 --> 00:25:45,070 There was one, yes. 419 00:25:45,509 --> 00:25:47,281 May I have a copy? 420 00:25:48,769 --> 00:25:50,429 I'll ask. 421 00:25:54,206 --> 00:25:55,898 Sinclair was young. 422 00:25:55,923 --> 00:25:57,603 Aye, he'd just turned 20. 423 00:25:58,872 --> 00:26:01,192 Severe personality problems. 424 00:26:01,638 --> 00:26:03,238 Drug abuse. 425 00:26:04,888 --> 00:26:07,445 He really didn't stand a chance, did he? 426 00:26:08,620 --> 00:26:09,980 Gentlemen. 427 00:26:11,695 --> 00:26:14,148 Pretty grim viewing, I'm afraid. 428 00:26:14,958 --> 00:26:19,988 As you can see, the dissection has been done to a high level of skill. 429 00:26:20,137 --> 00:26:24,106 It was actually quite simple to decipher which parts go with which. 430 00:26:24,131 --> 00:26:27,840 Er, these are from the last victim. 431 00:26:29,504 --> 00:26:33,527 But his head has been boiled beyond all recognition. 432 00:26:37,670 --> 00:26:39,574 Can we fingerprint him? 433 00:26:40,089 --> 00:26:42,324 This last one, absolutely. 434 00:26:42,349 --> 00:26:44,137 The others, probably not. 435 00:26:44,162 --> 00:26:45,802 Too much decay. 436 00:26:46,003 --> 00:26:48,270 Would you care to know the cause of death? 437 00:26:48,295 --> 00:26:49,495 Strangulation. 438 00:26:49,677 --> 00:26:53,037 Well, he was strangled, that's true. 439 00:26:53,789 --> 00:26:58,059 But in the autopsy, we discovered his lungs were filled with water, 440 00:26:58,084 --> 00:27:00,804 so death was due to drowning. 441 00:27:01,274 --> 00:27:03,074 Why did he leave that out? 442 00:27:03,138 --> 00:27:05,872 Er, there's something else. 443 00:27:06,117 --> 00:27:08,919 Tests show he had Hepatitis B. 444 00:27:09,113 --> 00:27:11,953 Quite a common disease with needle-using heroin addicts, 445 00:27:11,978 --> 00:27:16,419 but if any police officer has been in its vicinity, 446 00:27:16,692 --> 00:27:18,888 they'll have to have a vaccination, I'm afraid. 447 00:27:19,006 --> 00:27:21,395 Oh, for fuck's sake. 448 00:27:24,142 --> 00:27:25,950 Thank you, David. 449 00:27:59,010 --> 00:28:02,145 _ 450 00:28:06,629 --> 00:28:08,109 It's Sinclair. 451 00:28:22,937 --> 00:28:24,937 Dennis Nilsen, I am charging you 452 00:28:24,962 --> 00:28:27,934 with the murder of Stephen Sinclair by drowning. 453 00:28:28,589 --> 00:28:30,349 You will now be taken to Melrose Avenue, 454 00:28:30,374 --> 00:28:33,481 where you will identify the burn site of the other victims. 455 00:28:33,506 --> 00:28:35,052 Do you understand? 456 00:28:35,232 --> 00:28:36,672 Yeah. 457 00:28:36,697 --> 00:28:37,937 Come on. 458 00:28:43,164 --> 00:28:45,044 The press are outside. 459 00:28:46,287 --> 00:28:48,447 - Who? - Everyone, I think. 460 00:28:48,472 --> 00:28:49,653 I'll see what's happening. 461 00:28:49,678 --> 00:28:51,771 I'll go and speak to them, whilst you head out the back. 462 00:28:51,795 --> 00:28:53,934 No. They're out there as well. 463 00:28:53,959 --> 00:28:55,474 Geoff, get the hood. 464 00:28:55,755 --> 00:28:58,067 No. I've got nothing to hide. 465 00:29:01,466 --> 00:29:03,372 Nilsen! Nilsen, over here! 466 00:29:03,397 --> 00:29:04,857 Can you look at the camera, please, Nilsen? 467 00:29:04,881 --> 00:29:06,561 Nilsen, Nilsen, look over here! 468 00:29:06,586 --> 00:29:09,177 What are we looking at, Detective? Give us a quote! 469 00:29:10,571 --> 00:29:13,611 On Wednesday morning, officers were called to an address 470 00:29:13,636 --> 00:29:17,052 to investigate suspicious fragments found in a drain. 471 00:29:17,077 --> 00:29:19,309 Upon analysis, they were proved to be human 472 00:29:19,334 --> 00:29:21,567 and an investigation was opened. 473 00:29:21,784 --> 00:29:23,270 We have now charged a man 474 00:29:23,295 --> 00:29:26,122 by the name of Dennis Nilsen with murder. 475 00:29:27,627 --> 00:29:30,497 How many people do you suspect him to have murdered? 476 00:29:30,522 --> 00:29:32,841 We won't be revealing the number at this time. 477 00:29:32,866 --> 00:29:36,067 Can you at least say what gender he's suspected of killing? 478 00:29:36,502 --> 00:29:37,536 Men. 479 00:29:37,561 --> 00:29:40,489 When did Nilsen start this unusual habit? 480 00:29:40,514 --> 00:29:41,552 Five years. 481 00:29:41,577 --> 00:29:44,724 But can you make sure you attribute the term "unusual habit" 482 00:29:44,749 --> 00:29:46,856 to Mr Wells and not myself, please. 483 00:29:46,881 --> 00:29:49,536 Inspector, how can somebody kill for five years 484 00:29:49,561 --> 00:29:50,919 without the police knowing? 485 00:29:50,944 --> 00:29:53,981 We will be investigating that at the relevant time. 486 00:29:54,006 --> 00:29:55,825 That's all, thank you. 487 00:29:55,850 --> 00:29:58,653 Inspector, do you feel you let the people of Muswell Hill down? 488 00:30:20,090 --> 00:30:22,290 Ah, it's strange being back here. 489 00:30:23,544 --> 00:30:25,075 Yeah. 490 00:30:25,954 --> 00:30:28,114 I remember summers here. 491 00:30:30,258 --> 00:30:32,778 Bleep as a little puppy, running around. 492 00:30:35,246 --> 00:30:38,206 - We even had a vegetable patch... - Where did you have the bonfires? 493 00:30:59,485 --> 00:31:01,805 I'd start here, if I were you. 494 00:31:06,452 --> 00:31:08,145 Okay, Dennis. 495 00:31:09,401 --> 00:31:11,020 You're now gonna be taken to Herne Hill, 496 00:31:11,045 --> 00:31:12,925 where you'll stay whilst you're on remand. 497 00:31:13,021 --> 00:31:14,888 Not back to the station? 498 00:31:15,589 --> 00:31:17,434 No, I'm afraid not. 499 00:31:18,262 --> 00:31:20,071 Okay, let's go. 500 00:31:26,753 --> 00:31:29,273 I just spoke to some of the boys from Willesden. 501 00:31:29,508 --> 00:31:32,266 So, they say rumour has it Nilsen left the police 502 00:31:32,291 --> 00:31:34,922 because he was caught masturbating in the morgue. 503 00:31:35,031 --> 00:31:36,750 No. 504 00:31:37,108 --> 00:31:39,068 Makes you uneasy, don't it? 505 00:31:39,093 --> 00:31:41,539 How much we're relying on him to tell us the truth. 506 00:31:42,601 --> 00:31:45,492 It was here, outside Hornsey Police Station, 507 00:31:45,524 --> 00:31:48,724 that police confirmed that Dennis Andrew Nilsen 508 00:31:49,140 --> 00:31:50,555 has been charged with the first 509 00:31:50,580 --> 00:31:53,381 of what is said to be multiple murders. 510 00:31:53,830 --> 00:31:55,054 On Wednesday morning, 511 00:31:55,078 --> 00:31:56,696 officers were called to an address... 512 00:31:56,721 --> 00:31:57,892 Can you help me with this? 513 00:31:57,917 --> 00:31:59,751 ... suspicious fragments found in a drain. 514 00:31:59,776 --> 00:32:00,986 Brian? 515 00:32:01,713 --> 00:32:02,713 Oh, sorry. 516 00:32:03,260 --> 00:32:05,439 On analysis, they were proved to be human 517 00:32:05,464 --> 00:32:07,376 and an investigation was opened. 518 00:32:07,786 --> 00:32:08,923 What's happened? 519 00:32:08,948 --> 00:32:11,564 Oh, it's a multiple killer in London. 520 00:32:11,589 --> 00:32:13,784 ... Dennis Nilsen with murder. 521 00:32:13,809 --> 00:32:15,489 It's being reported that he was caught 522 00:32:15,514 --> 00:32:17,426 by the discovery of blocked drains 523 00:32:17,451 --> 00:32:20,059 that were filled with the remains of human flesh... 524 00:32:20,084 --> 00:32:22,113 I have to go to work. 525 00:32:22,376 --> 00:32:25,176 It is also being reported that his victims were men 526 00:32:25,201 --> 00:32:27,238 that Nilsen had lured back to his flat 527 00:32:27,263 --> 00:32:29,973 on the sense of promised frivolity. 528 00:33:24,651 --> 00:33:26,669 - Mr Sinclair? - Yes. 529 00:33:26,694 --> 00:33:29,364 My name is Detective Chief Inspector Peter Jay. 530 00:33:29,554 --> 00:33:32,505 Are you the parent of Stephen Sinclair? 531 00:33:32,530 --> 00:33:34,270 Before you say any more, officer, 532 00:33:34,295 --> 00:33:36,466 Stephen doesn't live here any more. 533 00:33:36,491 --> 00:33:39,851 He hasn't done since he started stealing from us to fund his habit. 534 00:33:40,377 --> 00:33:41,764 We don't even know where he is at the moment. 535 00:33:41,788 --> 00:33:43,474 Mr Sinclair, can we come in? 536 00:33:49,177 --> 00:33:50,697 Elizabeth?! 537 00:33:51,985 --> 00:33:54,305 A few days ago, a body was found. 538 00:33:55,117 --> 00:33:59,637 That body, I'm sorry to say, has now been confirmed as Stephen. 539 00:34:01,589 --> 00:34:04,669 A man has been charged in connection with his murder. 540 00:34:07,445 --> 00:34:08,630 His murder? 541 00:34:08,655 --> 00:34:12,630 I'm sorry to say, we can't give you much information at present, 542 00:34:12,655 --> 00:34:14,528 but we will as soon as we can. 543 00:34:14,828 --> 00:34:17,450 In the meantime, if there's anything that you need... 544 00:34:17,707 --> 00:34:19,227 Can I see him? 545 00:34:20,827 --> 00:34:23,387 I'm afraid that's not possible, Mrs Sinclair. 546 00:34:23,958 --> 00:34:26,520 But surely we need to identify him. 547 00:34:27,256 --> 00:34:29,223 He's already been identified. 548 00:34:29,248 --> 00:34:30,809 But how? 549 00:34:30,955 --> 00:34:33,223 Has somebody come in to see him? 550 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:36,560 I want to see him. 551 00:34:37,682 --> 00:34:39,489 Maybe somebody's made a mistake. 552 00:34:39,514 --> 00:34:41,669 Mrs Sinclair, it's Stephen. 553 00:34:44,350 --> 00:34:47,190 I can't tell you how sorry I am to be sure of that. 554 00:34:49,496 --> 00:34:51,416 But you don't want to see him. 555 00:34:52,581 --> 00:34:54,442 Not like this. 556 00:34:57,211 --> 00:34:59,716 I told him something like this would happen. 557 00:35:00,223 --> 00:35:01,848 But that drug... 558 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,919 it changed him and there was nothing we could do. 559 00:35:04,944 --> 00:35:06,098 Was there, love? 560 00:35:06,341 --> 00:35:07,669 No. 561 00:35:09,565 --> 00:35:13,341 He wouldn't listen to us, no matter how hard we tried. 562 00:35:15,153 --> 00:35:18,598 He just thought of us as a hotel, or a bank... 563 00:35:19,131 --> 00:35:21,106 or a prison. 564 00:35:21,131 --> 00:35:22,606 Not now, Neil. 565 00:35:31,030 --> 00:35:32,778 I'm sorry. 566 00:35:47,086 --> 00:35:48,422 Brian? 567 00:35:49,136 --> 00:35:50,736 Yeah. 568 00:35:54,973 --> 00:35:56,373 Oh, thank you. 569 00:35:57,845 --> 00:35:59,759 - Anything good? - Oh, no, not really. 570 00:35:59,784 --> 00:36:02,390 It's just all so salacious. 571 00:36:02,415 --> 00:36:04,175 - _ - He just looks so ordinary. 572 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,720 Like someone you'd walk past in the street, or meet in a bank. 573 00:36:08,296 --> 00:36:11,165 You see, that's what makes the whole thing so intriguing. 574 00:36:11,190 --> 00:36:14,110 This dichotomy between this seemingly normal, 575 00:36:14,149 --> 00:36:18,589 unobtrusive civil servant and the nature of his crimes. 576 00:36:18,614 --> 00:36:20,892 It just seems so hard to fathom. 577 00:36:20,917 --> 00:36:22,493 What's there to fathom? 578 00:36:22,518 --> 00:36:25,470 Well, what makes most of us go one way with our lives, 579 00:36:25,495 --> 00:36:29,695 and others, like Nilsen, go so far in the opposite direction? 580 00:36:30,315 --> 00:36:32,501 Probably because he's evil. 581 00:36:33,797 --> 00:36:35,235 I'm going to be late. 582 00:36:35,725 --> 00:36:37,634 - See you tonight. - Mm-hm. 583 00:36:40,888 --> 00:36:43,408 The man currently being questioned by police 584 00:36:43,433 --> 00:36:45,720 is a 37-year-old civil servant, 585 00:36:45,745 --> 00:36:50,048 Andrew Nilsen, known to his colleagues at work as "Des". 586 00:36:50,073 --> 00:36:52,233 For the past six months, he's been working here 587 00:36:52,258 --> 00:36:55,806 at the Manpower Services Commission in London's Kentish Town. 588 00:36:55,931 --> 00:36:58,774 I understand that he is also a former policeman, 589 00:36:58,799 --> 00:37:02,079 having been in the force for about a year in the early '70s. 590 00:37:06,097 --> 00:37:07,149 Probably robbed it. 591 00:37:07,174 --> 00:37:09,517 If I find out any of you tipped them off 592 00:37:09,542 --> 00:37:11,087 about him being ex-police, 593 00:37:11,112 --> 00:37:14,312 I'll personally drag you to the fucking committee myself! 594 00:37:14,771 --> 00:37:16,493 Do you hear me? 595 00:37:16,824 --> 00:37:18,667 We are in blackout, 596 00:37:18,692 --> 00:37:21,407 that means you don't mention his name outside this station. 597 00:37:21,432 --> 00:37:24,673 Not to your wives, your mistresses, your friends down the pub. 598 00:37:24,698 --> 00:37:26,157 You understand? 599 00:37:27,717 --> 00:37:31,610 This man killed on our patch for four years. 600 00:37:32,493 --> 00:37:34,053 We find every name, 601 00:37:34,078 --> 00:37:37,470 and we charge and convict him with every single fucking one. 602 00:37:38,467 --> 00:37:40,806 He gets away with nothing. 603 00:37:48,305 --> 00:37:49,923 Get rid. 604 00:38:04,423 --> 00:38:05,704 Come in. 605 00:38:06,588 --> 00:38:08,782 This gentleman's here about Nilsen. 606 00:38:08,919 --> 00:38:10,789 He wants to talk to you, guv. 607 00:38:12,393 --> 00:38:13,985 What can I do for you? 608 00:38:14,606 --> 00:38:17,290 Dennis Nilsen tried to kill me. 609 00:38:19,407 --> 00:38:20,751 Where did you meet him? 610 00:38:20,776 --> 00:38:23,376 A pub. The Golden Lion. 611 00:38:23,466 --> 00:38:25,509 Dean Street, Soho. 612 00:38:25,534 --> 00:38:27,334 But I'm... I'm not gay. 613 00:38:27,466 --> 00:38:29,024 No, of course. 614 00:38:29,585 --> 00:38:34,798 He was with a group of people, who I assume were his friends. 615 00:38:35,772 --> 00:38:39,485 After last orders, he said we should go back to his for a drink. 616 00:38:40,163 --> 00:38:42,323 I thought he meant all of us. 617 00:38:42,348 --> 00:38:45,134 But it was only the two of us that went. 618 00:38:45,724 --> 00:38:50,604 I must have passed out, because when I came to, 619 00:38:50,629 --> 00:38:54,349 he'd tied my ankles together with his tie 620 00:38:54,374 --> 00:38:58,814 and he was strangling me with mine. 621 00:39:00,288 --> 00:39:02,032 I managed to... 622 00:39:02,416 --> 00:39:05,082 fight him off and get him to the ground. 623 00:39:05,605 --> 00:39:09,821 He then started screaming, "Take my money!" 624 00:39:10,288 --> 00:39:13,144 "Take my money!" Like, like I was the one attacking him. 625 00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,360 Sorry, er, when was this? 626 00:39:17,282 --> 00:39:19,051 Three years ago. 627 00:39:19,553 --> 00:39:21,793 I'd put it to the back of my mind, 628 00:39:22,037 --> 00:39:23,519 moved on. 629 00:39:23,847 --> 00:39:26,832 Then when I saw his face in the newspaper, it all came back. 630 00:39:27,994 --> 00:39:30,371 Why didn't you go to the police at the time? 631 00:39:30,611 --> 00:39:33,491 I did. Straight away. 632 00:39:34,371 --> 00:39:38,433 They took me back there. They were there for five minutes. 633 00:39:39,207 --> 00:39:41,019 They spoke to Nilsen and, 634 00:39:41,044 --> 00:39:43,941 bought his story that it was a lovers' tiff. 635 00:39:44,248 --> 00:39:46,408 It wasn't something they wanted to be around. 636 00:39:47,577 --> 00:39:49,988 They even apologised to him for wasting his time 637 00:39:50,013 --> 00:39:51,597 and sent me on my way. 638 00:39:55,720 --> 00:39:57,402 Okay, erm... 639 00:39:58,699 --> 00:40:00,939 You're just gonna have to go from the beginning. 640 00:40:01,699 --> 00:40:03,699 Leave nothing out. 641 00:40:10,995 --> 00:40:13,504 _ 642 00:40:24,255 --> 00:40:26,433 So, how many of these has he written to you? 643 00:40:26,458 --> 00:40:28,918 Well, the fourth came today. 644 00:40:28,943 --> 00:40:31,965 And... and there's a poem in the last one. 645 00:40:35,511 --> 00:40:39,261 "Lives of sorrow, bones of the dead, 646 00:40:39,286 --> 00:40:42,206 given by the sea to fitful head." 647 00:40:42,763 --> 00:40:44,519 It's so... sensitive. 648 00:40:44,544 --> 00:40:45,624 Well, quite. 649 00:40:45,649 --> 00:40:48,863 You wouldn't think by reading that, that this man strangled young men 650 00:40:48,888 --> 00:40:51,043 and disposed of them down the lavatory, would you? 651 00:40:51,068 --> 00:40:53,332 How is the prison allowing you to meet him? 652 00:40:53,357 --> 00:40:55,582 He said he'd put me on the visitors' list. 653 00:40:55,607 --> 00:40:58,277 Although they're probably not aware that I'm a writer. 654 00:40:58,630 --> 00:41:01,750 - Well, aren't you frightened? - No, no. He's, erm... 655 00:41:01,876 --> 00:41:04,707 He's hardly going to jump over the desk and strangle me, is he? 656 00:41:04,732 --> 00:41:06,457 No, but still... 657 00:41:06,482 --> 00:41:08,176 Do you think you'll shake his hand? 658 00:41:08,201 --> 00:41:10,824 No. No, I shouldn't think so. 659 00:41:14,377 --> 00:41:15,377 Name? 660 00:41:15,402 --> 00:41:18,238 Brian Masters to see Dennis Nilsen. 661 00:41:33,006 --> 00:41:34,846 You find us okay? 662 00:41:46,352 --> 00:41:48,176 Do you smoke, Brian? 663 00:41:49,221 --> 00:41:50,801 Yes, I do. 664 00:41:52,178 --> 00:41:53,538 Er... 665 00:41:54,815 --> 00:41:57,754 You can smoke as many real fags in this room as you like, you know? 666 00:41:57,779 --> 00:42:00,176 Out there, you're only allowed tobacco. 667 00:42:03,885 --> 00:42:05,245 Yeah. 668 00:42:08,389 --> 00:42:09,879 They say capital punishment's dead, 669 00:42:09,904 --> 00:42:12,605 but Her Majesty manages to find her little ways, you know? 670 00:42:14,562 --> 00:42:15,691 Yes. 671 00:42:15,716 --> 00:42:17,980 I read your book, Brian. 672 00:42:18,005 --> 00:42:25,005 The Dukes: Our Origin, Ennoblement And The History Of 26 Families. 673 00:42:25,030 --> 00:42:28,894 - Are you from aristocracy? - No. No, I'm not. 674 00:42:29,446 --> 00:42:31,606 You're from that kind of world, though, eh? 675 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:33,840 I bet you're a bloody Tory. 676 00:42:34,759 --> 00:42:37,039 I'm not sure that's entirely relevant. 677 00:42:37,064 --> 00:42:40,957 I'm just... I'm not entirely sure of your intentions as of yet. 678 00:42:41,272 --> 00:42:43,152 Yeah. Your letters sounded genuine, 679 00:42:43,177 --> 00:42:46,413 but now we're sat opposite each other, I worry. 680 00:42:46,438 --> 00:42:50,671 I have judged myself more harshly than any casual observer 681 00:42:50,696 --> 00:42:52,531 or any court ever could. 682 00:42:52,824 --> 00:42:55,784 Aren't you the one judging me, Mr Nilsen? 683 00:42:56,755 --> 00:42:58,937 - How's that? - Oh, you... 684 00:42:58,962 --> 00:43:01,249 you hear my accent and you assume 685 00:43:01,274 --> 00:43:02,910 that you know everything about me. 686 00:43:02,935 --> 00:43:04,688 I'm simply stating it's obvious where you came from. 687 00:43:04,712 --> 00:43:07,554 I'm not... It's not a bad thing. 688 00:43:07,617 --> 00:43:10,578 I just like to know where I stand with the person I'm talking to. 689 00:43:10,718 --> 00:43:12,187 Well, I was... 690 00:43:12,234 --> 00:43:14,767 I was brought up on the Old Kent Road. 691 00:43:16,228 --> 00:43:18,765 You don't sound like you were brought up on the Old Kent Road. 692 00:43:18,790 --> 00:43:20,950 Well, I was lucky, I got an education. 693 00:43:20,975 --> 00:43:23,124 Ah. Is that where the accent comes from, then? 694 00:43:23,149 --> 00:43:24,749 It's your education, is it? 695 00:43:25,142 --> 00:43:27,203 I was under the impression 696 00:43:27,228 --> 00:43:32,428 that I was here to discuss writing a book about you. 697 00:43:32,453 --> 00:43:35,812 Erm... I'm really not that interesting. 698 00:43:35,837 --> 00:43:39,517 Why would you want to write about a monster like me? 699 00:43:39,542 --> 00:43:41,039 Do you consider yourself to be a monster? 700 00:43:41,063 --> 00:43:43,796 - Well, have you read the paper? - Hmm. Of course. 701 00:43:44,863 --> 00:43:49,609 It truly amazes me, people's attraction to the macabre. 702 00:43:49,851 --> 00:43:52,054 Cos all of us have skeletons 703 00:43:52,079 --> 00:43:53,687 rattling around in our cupboards, y'know? 704 00:43:53,712 --> 00:43:57,820 Secrets they would never dare to tell to anyone. 705 00:43:57,845 --> 00:44:01,429 So, what comes is this flood 706 00:44:01,454 --> 00:44:04,882 of self-righteous public condemnation, 707 00:44:04,907 --> 00:44:07,406 whilst simultaneously, everybody's talking about it, 708 00:44:07,431 --> 00:44:09,718 over and over and over. They're consuming it 709 00:44:09,743 --> 00:44:11,867 and indulging in it, but at arms-length... 710 00:44:11,892 --> 00:44:15,460 - I'm not here to do that. - Meanwhile, I'm left here to rot, 711 00:44:15,485 --> 00:44:19,054 whilst others make profits at my expense. 712 00:44:19,079 --> 00:44:20,812 Listen, if you want some money from this, 713 00:44:20,837 --> 00:44:22,532 I'm sure that we can come to some arrangement. 714 00:44:22,556 --> 00:44:24,429 I don't want... I don't want a penny from this. 715 00:44:24,454 --> 00:44:27,687 I just don't want those poor men exploited. 716 00:44:28,585 --> 00:44:31,273 Well, I'm not here to exploit you 717 00:44:31,298 --> 00:44:33,531 or those 17 young men that you... 718 00:44:33,556 --> 00:44:35,898 15! It was 15. 719 00:44:36,012 --> 00:44:38,640 It wasn't 17, it was 15. 720 00:44:39,030 --> 00:44:41,163 See, now, if you're gonna get your information 721 00:44:41,188 --> 00:44:44,898 from those red-top fuckers, telling lies about me every day, 722 00:44:44,923 --> 00:44:47,109 we might as well say goodbye now, Brian. 723 00:44:47,646 --> 00:44:50,460 I have a responsibility for my story 724 00:44:50,485 --> 00:44:53,226 and theirs to be told correctly. 725 00:44:53,251 --> 00:44:55,891 I also have that responsibility. 726 00:44:57,009 --> 00:45:01,911 I... I have no want to write some two-bit horror novel 727 00:45:01,936 --> 00:45:03,656 with ghoulish adjectives. 728 00:45:03,752 --> 00:45:08,023 I'm not here to elaborate, or expose or excuse. 729 00:45:08,048 --> 00:45:12,538 I'm here to comprehend, because the law cannot comprehend 730 00:45:12,563 --> 00:45:15,083 beyond the question of guilty or innocent. 731 00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,560 And how do you propose to do that? 732 00:45:19,217 --> 00:45:20,867 By listening. 733 00:45:21,069 --> 00:45:23,468 I want to know about your upbringing, 734 00:45:23,493 --> 00:45:27,039 your teenage years, your time in the army. 735 00:45:27,820 --> 00:45:29,398 All of it. 736 00:45:29,629 --> 00:45:32,257 Because only by doing that... 737 00:45:32,944 --> 00:45:35,695 do we get the whole picture... 738 00:45:36,257 --> 00:45:37,710 Mr Nilsen. 739 00:45:41,463 --> 00:45:43,593 I must warn you, Brian, 740 00:45:43,854 --> 00:45:48,328 you will find a full inquiry into my life and deeds... 741 00:45:48,683 --> 00:45:50,601 distressing. 742 00:45:51,111 --> 00:45:53,071 I'm aware of that. 743 00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:54,859 Well, then. 744 00:45:54,884 --> 00:46:00,828 I pass the burden of my past and deeds onto your shoulders. 745 00:46:05,148 --> 00:46:08,109 Make sure you bring an extra pack of fags next time, eh? 746 00:46:10,635 --> 00:46:12,035 Oh... 747 00:46:12,807 --> 00:46:14,749 Please, call me Des. 748 00:46:18,727 --> 00:46:20,687 Synced & corrected by QueenMaddie www.addic7ed.com